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Asunto: National Team
vivski para
cometer [del]
The players are copping a bit of stick, but I'd go as far as to say we had the better squad on the day. However, the message I'm getting from you is that you didn't have the skills at your disposal to play an effective formation.
If we were playing against them again tomorrow, I'm guessing we'd see a few tactic changes from you... and I'd be surprised if we didn't win.
I'm not laying into you. The game today highlighted some of our weaknesses and that's probably a good thing. Are there young talented players who have slipped off the radar?
Would it be an idea to set up some sort of national academy? I'd be willing to participate in a program to pick up and train players we ear-mark for success. It might be a way to build some strength in the areas we're currently deficient in to give the national coach a bit more freedom to focus of building good tactics to defeat the better opponents.
If we were playing against them again tomorrow, I'm guessing we'd see a few tactic changes from you... and I'd be surprised if we didn't win.
I'm not laying into you. The game today highlighted some of our weaknesses and that's probably a good thing. Are there young talented players who have slipped off the radar?
Would it be an idea to set up some sort of national academy? I'd be willing to participate in a program to pick up and train players we ear-mark for success. It might be a way to build some strength in the areas we're currently deficient in to give the national coach a bit more freedom to focus of building good tactics to defeat the better opponents.
cometer [del] para
vivski
Before I reply, this isn't an attack of any sort, just explaining some things, and I know yours wasn't attacks either. This is exactly the kind of thing I like to hear after a game because everyone views things differently, so the more constructive discussions the better I get and the quicker we all learn.
I wouldn't go so far as say I didn't have the skills at my disposal because every player who played today I knew of their skills at least recently. The problem came down to not getting enough players to select from. I had quite a small pool of players to choose from compared to other type games and some weren't quite there.
I'm not trying to avoid the stick here because the tactic wasn't particularly great, certainly lacked in some areas, but I still think it had potential and that had I have done a few things differently to fix those areas it might have been completely different.
Taking things into context, we dominated possession and territory and had more shots, so the idea of the tactic at least worked to some degree. Usually it takes me 2-3 games to tweak out flaws from tactics, some tactics have bigger flaws then others and are more detrimental to the performance. I doubt if we played them tomorrow I would have had a different tactic unless we knew how this game turned out today already and then yeah things would be different but I'd expect they'd change some things also.
I tried to cut down the through balls with Tarka and Kemp's positioning to try to prevent the through ball in between the outer defenders.
Even looking at how they scored can easily be deceptive. One from a fk over the top of the wall (can't do anything there except not give away the fk to begin with), one from being able to beat a defender and then set up a striker, and the opening goal where they were able to pass while under pressure and have their striker charge in between our two defenders and the keeper to slot home. They really only had 2 successful through balls, one hit the post, the other went in.
So yeah, things weren't as I'll call "spot on" but I was trying to create more chances as we've been struggling except against malaysia to score, so the tactic was more aggressive.
I think it's quite possible young players have slipped off the radar, some may never have been on to begin with. I went through a large section of the youth page looking for potential prospects and also other sources. Perhaps I need to be more specific but half the side was from overseas today. As for my own belief and it is only an opinion and could be very wrong indeed, is that we don't have enough "active" trainers of local talents. This could be due to a number of sources such as pehaps we're not getting as many good youth pulls as others, maybe we're training other foreigners instead since there is more of them then locals, maybe some of our lower division managers who aren't seen around on the forums much don't set up proper training regimes, I don't know but all these things could be likely sources of the problems we're going through at the moment.
Also we went through a period of having really decent U21 side and most are now 22-23 and playing for the first side or on the fringe, so some trainers still have these on their hands.
This was really why I tried to start up that who's training what thread, to see firstly who is active, and then where the spread of our talent is, but I haven't had a lot of responses.
End of first point :p Sorry for those already lost.
Perhaps what I need to do is set actual requirements which will be initially difficult to do, rather than have an open door policy.
As for the national academy it's an interesting thought. Yet it's difficult to compete against some richer countries. I think this could have some potential if we had enough trainers in specific areas and were successful at that. What I might do is on a weekly basis check up on all those prospective players and how they've progressed with whoever ends up with them. I do already perform this but perhaps I need to be more frequent. The other thing is that often a player gets picked up despite them not actually training that position and using them only for their current skills and that hurts as well.
Once again though, with regards to my own tactics is that they take time to iron out the flaws. The result today came down to having a tactic which wasn't up to my usual standard and I strongly apologise for and will be looking seriously at how to improve that style of tactic and I have had some feedback which is greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the long post, if anything sounds too harsh (it's not meant to be), or unreasonable let me know, but I think it came down to a tactical error (this will happen with any manager from time to time and exists in real life) where our flaws were opened up and exploited as well as the amount of players I had to select from (which could be deemed partially my fault also for not chasing hard enough or something similar, and partially down to the fact we're rather short of genuine local youth being trained due to possible reasons mentioned in this post.
Either way it was an ugly result, and one I need to improve upon and I will do.
I wouldn't go so far as say I didn't have the skills at my disposal because every player who played today I knew of their skills at least recently. The problem came down to not getting enough players to select from. I had quite a small pool of players to choose from compared to other type games and some weren't quite there.
I'm not trying to avoid the stick here because the tactic wasn't particularly great, certainly lacked in some areas, but I still think it had potential and that had I have done a few things differently to fix those areas it might have been completely different.
Taking things into context, we dominated possession and territory and had more shots, so the idea of the tactic at least worked to some degree. Usually it takes me 2-3 games to tweak out flaws from tactics, some tactics have bigger flaws then others and are more detrimental to the performance. I doubt if we played them tomorrow I would have had a different tactic unless we knew how this game turned out today already and then yeah things would be different but I'd expect they'd change some things also.
I tried to cut down the through balls with Tarka and Kemp's positioning to try to prevent the through ball in between the outer defenders.
Even looking at how they scored can easily be deceptive. One from a fk over the top of the wall (can't do anything there except not give away the fk to begin with), one from being able to beat a defender and then set up a striker, and the opening goal where they were able to pass while under pressure and have their striker charge in between our two defenders and the keeper to slot home. They really only had 2 successful through balls, one hit the post, the other went in.
So yeah, things weren't as I'll call "spot on" but I was trying to create more chances as we've been struggling except against malaysia to score, so the tactic was more aggressive.
I think it's quite possible young players have slipped off the radar, some may never have been on to begin with. I went through a large section of the youth page looking for potential prospects and also other sources. Perhaps I need to be more specific but half the side was from overseas today. As for my own belief and it is only an opinion and could be very wrong indeed, is that we don't have enough "active" trainers of local talents. This could be due to a number of sources such as pehaps we're not getting as many good youth pulls as others, maybe we're training other foreigners instead since there is more of them then locals, maybe some of our lower division managers who aren't seen around on the forums much don't set up proper training regimes, I don't know but all these things could be likely sources of the problems we're going through at the moment.
Also we went through a period of having really decent U21 side and most are now 22-23 and playing for the first side or on the fringe, so some trainers still have these on their hands.
This was really why I tried to start up that who's training what thread, to see firstly who is active, and then where the spread of our talent is, but I haven't had a lot of responses.
End of first point :p Sorry for those already lost.
Perhaps what I need to do is set actual requirements which will be initially difficult to do, rather than have an open door policy.
As for the national academy it's an interesting thought. Yet it's difficult to compete against some richer countries. I think this could have some potential if we had enough trainers in specific areas and were successful at that. What I might do is on a weekly basis check up on all those prospective players and how they've progressed with whoever ends up with them. I do already perform this but perhaps I need to be more frequent. The other thing is that often a player gets picked up despite them not actually training that position and using them only for their current skills and that hurts as well.
Once again though, with regards to my own tactics is that they take time to iron out the flaws. The result today came down to having a tactic which wasn't up to my usual standard and I strongly apologise for and will be looking seriously at how to improve that style of tactic and I have had some feedback which is greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the long post, if anything sounds too harsh (it's not meant to be), or unreasonable let me know, but I think it came down to a tactical error (this will happen with any manager from time to time and exists in real life) where our flaws were opened up and exploited as well as the amount of players I had to select from (which could be deemed partially my fault also for not chasing hard enough or something similar, and partially down to the fact we're rather short of genuine local youth being trained due to possible reasons mentioned in this post.
Either way it was an ugly result, and one I need to improve upon and I will do.
Yeah that's a thought and one I will consider for sure, but I was expecting them to use sliding defense rather than a fairly static one and tried to create holes that way when they tried to slide across and have the outside man free. That did work for the left side a few times with Maras and Ielati breaking through, but Mitchell got caught in the log jam of defenders.
Certainly something that can be worked on, I wasn't expecting that defensive structure either but perhaps I should have.
Will work on that for the next game.
Certainly something that can be worked on, I wasn't expecting that defensive structure either but perhaps I should have.
Will work on that for the next game.
In response to your national academy thing, we tried a similar thing in NZ a few seasons ago when our defenders weren't up to scratch (a bit before my time i believe) at which point snowy became the defender trainer and trained a whole lot of NZ defenders that would normally be just above marginal and bball... well i dunno what he did, he was supposed to focus on mids though =p. Anywho, the idea worked and a lot of his trainees are on the NZ team atm. We'll forget about that incident where he threw a hissy and sold all his defenders [oops]
vivski para
cometer [del]
Don't get me wrong. I think you're doing a top job in every regard.
With the tactic. Be careful to judge a tactic on the amount of possession and number of shots. I play a similar tactic to what Bulgaria and it can really work over teams who control the ball in the midfield but are unable to get into dangerous areas and are vulnerable to the counter-attack by pushing up. It's about the quality of possession and taking your shots from dangerous positions (with other strikers lining up to put away a rebound).
I'd like to think that if you had your time again we'd play with a much tighter defense. Bulgaria will be very happy indeed, 'cos not only did they have the rub of the green, but their tactic worked perfectly. Our tactic did absolutely nothing to throw them off their game plan.
But I don't want to dwell on the tactic, 'cos I want to encourage you to try new things. Just making sure you get to see it as I saw it so you can get another perspective.
We already have several managers who pick up young Aussie talents to train. Just wondering if it would be useful to manage it openly so we don't end up with four brilliant AMs when we really need a CM, or the current situation where we have several offensive wingers but no-one who can run in from the opposite channel and provide a quality finish. I'm getting close to being in a position to pick up a strong junior to support to greatness. The problem of richer managers bidding over the top is just one we have to live with.
With the tactic. Be careful to judge a tactic on the amount of possession and number of shots. I play a similar tactic to what Bulgaria and it can really work over teams who control the ball in the midfield but are unable to get into dangerous areas and are vulnerable to the counter-attack by pushing up. It's about the quality of possession and taking your shots from dangerous positions (with other strikers lining up to put away a rebound).
I'd like to think that if you had your time again we'd play with a much tighter defense. Bulgaria will be very happy indeed, 'cos not only did they have the rub of the green, but their tactic worked perfectly. Our tactic did absolutely nothing to throw them off their game plan.
But I don't want to dwell on the tactic, 'cos I want to encourage you to try new things. Just making sure you get to see it as I saw it so you can get another perspective.
We already have several managers who pick up young Aussie talents to train. Just wondering if it would be useful to manage it openly so we don't end up with four brilliant AMs when we really need a CM, or the current situation where we have several offensive wingers but no-one who can run in from the opposite channel and provide a quality finish. I'm getting close to being in a position to pick up a strong junior to support to greatness. The problem of richer managers bidding over the top is just one we have to live with.
naphtali [del] para
vivski
It is very hard for us to control our own destiny in that great YP's are beyond the means of most teams. So unless we get lucky with the right trainer getting the great YP we normally lose control over how that player is developed when they are transfer listed.
Its quite hard to sit on cash waiting for a good YP to buy as well due to the high rate of inflation in this game, so getting the right trainer with the funds at the right time requires a lot of communication, and lets face it there aren't that many australian users who are active on the conferences.
I think we're actually quite lucky to have someone like Borkos who looks for Australians (forwards in particular) to train.
Its quite hard to sit on cash waiting for a good YP to buy as well due to the high rate of inflation in this game, so getting the right trainer with the funds at the right time requires a lot of communication, and lets face it there aren't that many australian users who are active on the conferences.
I think we're actually quite lucky to have someone like Borkos who looks for Australians (forwards in particular) to train.
Yeah, they were some of the reasons I stated and I fully agree with you, I've even had trouble myself so I'm in that category, especially hard when you don't get your normal income stream due to low supporter mood :(.
The best solution really is when we do get a really great prospect we capitalise on that, either by training or by selling off, although even then it's hard as newer teams might need that pull to strengthen their team without actually training them.
Yeah for sure and it's really good to see players falling into the right hands but there are also others out there doing similar things but maybe not in as big a number :).
The best solution really is when we do get a really great prospect we capitalise on that, either by training or by selling off, although even then it's hard as newer teams might need that pull to strengthen their team without actually training them.
Yeah for sure and it's really good to see players falling into the right hands but there are also others out there doing similar things but maybe not in as big a number :).
definitely (the borkos comment).
It may be worth actually listing those teams that are active in both the forums and training australian youngsters, so that comunication can be made.
Obviously managrs like yourself, vivski (who will probably be a great one for future as he will get more money in seasons to come), cometer and myself train a lot of aussies and are active in the forum, but that could be the start of a list (I know there are others I could name, but i dont want to name all i can think of for fear of not naming someone else)
It may be worth actually listing those teams that are active in both the forums and training australian youngsters, so that comunication can be made.
Obviously managrs like yourself, vivski (who will probably be a great one for future as he will get more money in seasons to come), cometer and myself train a lot of aussies and are active in the forum, but that could be the start of a list (I know there are others I could name, but i dont want to name all i can think of for fear of not naming someone else)
cometer [del] para
vivski
Yeah the defense will certainly be looked at. Was very vulnerable and in hindsight it did us no favours at all.
Yeah we do have a lot of trainers who do pick up Aussie talents and it's not just restricted internally either. I think we're going through a phase where the usual NT suppliers have got their players in the 22-23 range and still fighting in the main NT and we haven't had the 2nd generation occur yet.
That thread I started up appeared to support my idea (at least from the ten or so who posted) that we don't have a lot of defender trainers in Australia. I've been contemplating switching to defenders for a while now and I may end up doing so when I finish with my striker batch. That thread was also trying to indicate to myself as well as other watchful users, where the diversity of our trainers lie. I'd still encourage those who haven't to take a look at that thread and include themselves so we get a general picture of how things look.
Yeah we do have a lot of trainers who do pick up Aussie talents and it's not just restricted internally either. I think we're going through a phase where the usual NT suppliers have got their players in the 22-23 range and still fighting in the main NT and we haven't had the 2nd generation occur yet.
That thread I started up appeared to support my idea (at least from the ten or so who posted) that we don't have a lot of defender trainers in Australia. I've been contemplating switching to defenders for a while now and I may end up doing so when I finish with my striker batch. That thread was also trying to indicate to myself as well as other watchful users, where the diversity of our trainers lie. I'd still encourage those who haven't to take a look at that thread and include themselves so we get a general picture of how things look.
vivski para
cometer [del]
I just had an idea that we could start up a thread for all the best looking youths, giving us a timetable for when we could potentially have a new star on the market. However,
1. any participating member is likely to be one who is keen on training the junior for themselves,
2. we don't know what skills the player will need so in effect every trainer would have to be on notice for it to be effective anyway.
But a watch list of the top X youths and the date on which they'll be pulled could be useful... and give managers the bragging rights they so crave. [:P]
So I've gone off the idea, but thought I'd float it anyway.
1. any participating member is likely to be one who is keen on training the junior for themselves,
2. we don't know what skills the player will need so in effect every trainer would have to be on notice for it to be effective anyway.
But a watch list of the top X youths and the date on which they'll be pulled could be useful... and give managers the bragging rights they so crave. [:P]
So I've gone off the idea, but thought I'd float it anyway.
Achmid [del] para
vivski
Going along with this I bvelieve there are two things that could be done (either by cometer, our NT manager, or NT assistants of which we dont have any officail ones at present) and they are...
1. Make a list that has the top say 7 defs, 7 mids, and 5 atts for each age (and 3 GKS) and
2. for those players that are consistently in the main team and U21 team, show the skills they had when they left the youth squad along with their talent so that people can see what a future NT players looks like before they are trained
1. Make a list that has the top say 7 defs, 7 mids, and 5 atts for each age (and 3 GKS) and
2. for those players that are consistently in the main team and U21 team, show the skills they had when they left the youth squad along with their talent so that people can see what a future NT players looks like before they are trained
Achmid [del] para
Sriram [del]
REJECT REJECT :P
I have a Brillaint 2+ coming out in 10 weeks
I have a Brillaint 2+ coming out in 10 weeks
vivski para
Sriram [del]
Haha, it's working already. [yipi]
Definitely reject. Total dud!
Definitely reject. Total dud!
Achmid [del] para
Sriram [del]
Elias Aloisi and Bobby Ferris (my Bril 2+) to play for australia together in 3 seasons