Asunto: »[info]Dev Diary #82: Automatic release of NT-players from

we will introduce it from next one (bonuses for place will replace seasonal sponsorship bonus)

and the expectations will be responsible for what?

Expectetions are set once for whole season. You will have 5 levels of achieving fans expectations. From result over expectations to dissappointing them.
Level you achieve will affect fans mood in whole next season. If you will achieve result over expectations you will have permanent "+" to fans mood and it will be easier for you to have max mood level = better finances. Result under expectations will give you permanent "-" to fans mood = will be more difficult to have decent mood level.

I hope it won't be another frustration feature for old users in high leagues

if your fans are constantly depressed, you will feel the same

Maybe it will be frustrating for those who play below their possibilities.
And rewarding for those who play better as expected.

That's the point and it has nothing to do with old/new users.

It's very possible because the algorithm seems to be messed up and based A LOT on the club's finances

for example these are expectations for your league

Championship (1 - 1) frischauf heyen
Podium (2 - 5) schwarzgelb Einsiedel
Podium (2 - 5) Die Halbstarken
Podium (2 - 5) Dynamo Deutscheinsiedel
Podium (2 - 5) Deportivo Destille 06
Top half of the table (6 - 11) Erratiker Köppern
Top half of the table (6 - 11) the-physicals
Top half of the table (6 - 11) Little Sokker Angels
Top half of the table (6 - 11) AC TurboTurbine
Top half of the table (6 - 11) FC Pest
Top half of the table (6 - 11) Das Urgestein
Brave fight for any points (12 - 12) Stahl Brandenburg

average ratings of your league:

75.4 Little Sokker Angels
74.7 frischauf heyen
74.6 Erratiker Köppern
72.3 Die Halbstarken
71.4 FC Pest
69.7 AC TurboTurbine
68.5 Deportivo Destille 06
Dynamo Deutscheinsiedel
68.3 the-physicals
Stahl Brandenburg
68.1 schwarzgelb Einsiedel
67.6 Das Urgestein

so in this case schwrzgelb is considered #2nd best team in expectations, yet in actual strength of team it's the 2nd worst team in the league - but it probably has more resources on the account

they are doing it mostly to annoy people who have money in their account, but it messes the algorithm.

in other words: if you want lower expectations so you can meet them/overachieve = use your money before start of season, then sell those players after the expectations are set :-)

An even worse example from Polish Ekstraklasa :-)

Championship (1 - 1) KS Wisła Puławy
Vice-championship (2 - 3) WislaKrakow
Vice-championship (2 - 3) MOSP Białystok
Top half of the table (4 - 4) KS Polonia Skierniewice
Top half of the table (5 - 9) ASRIM Iskrzynia
Top half of the table (5 - 9) WHITE TIGERS CF
Top half of the table (5 - 9) FC Chełmek
Top half of the table (5 - 9) Japanese Futbol
Top half of the table (5 - 9) Domik Tuchola
Avoiding direct relegation (10 - 12) Patataj
Avoiding direct relegation (10 - 12) Sokół Orzech
Avoiding direct relegation (10 - 12) Where is My Mind

The teams "expected to finish 2nd or 3rd" sold out and have only 16-19yo players to train

Wisła plays for 36
MOSP plays for 28

but they have money on their accounts [']

Championship (1 - 1) frischauf heyen

this guy just promoted to first league, that doesn't make sense

the algorithm should be explained early enough to give people time to prepare, especially if money reserves play a role

greg said in early days when people complained about fan mood: this feature isn't important enough to be checked every week. That would be the best - don't make it too important and set a limit to its impact on total finances. Otherwise it will overlay other aspects of sokker that should be more important and more visible for the fun of the users.

the algorithm should be explained early enough to give people time to prepare, especially if money reserves play a role

it seems that money reserves are by far THE MOST important aspect of the algorithm because they want to force people with money to spend it and they want people to stop gathering huge amounts of cash

greg said in early days when people complained about fan mood: this feature isn't important enough to be checked every week. That would be the best - don't make it too important and set a limit to its impact on total finances.

they're going into opposite direction, they want to make it more important than it was before (reason above)
(editado)

+1

so in this case schwrzgelb is considered #2nd best team in expectations, yet in actual strength of team it's the 2nd worst team in the league - but it probably has more resources on the account

Is considered to be 2nd - 5th as 3 other teams.
It takes only one season behind from history and maybe it is too little, maybe 2 season behind would affect expectations more from history point of view.

What about finances. If club has 100-200mln € on their account and plays very weak it is still logic that fans expects better results with such budget.

Its like with PSG in real life. They never won Champions League, they are playing bad in CL, but fans always expects results with budget they have.

The teams "expected to finish 2nd or 3rd" sold out and have only 16-19yo players to train

Wisła plays for 36
MOSP plays for 28

It is still quiet logic that fans doesnt understand why their strong club sold out and plans to be relegated.
If I would be fan of such club I would be even furious about what owners did. Knowing that owner has money from solding team out its even more frustrating.

So yea, this is how it works and it makes sense.
(editado)

It would make sense in the real world but sokker is very far from it in many aspects.
That kind of change needs to be adapted to sokker reality not real life.

It's not a single player game

Here you have a situation when fans of a club playing for 75-80+ rating expect that their team will end up behind a team that has 17-19yo players and plays for 28 rating

which doesn't make sense

especially that if the team playing for 75-80+ also sold their players, then it would have even more money

so 10m euro on account is counted as MUCH more than a player who is worth 10m euro

analyse different leagues and teams, you will see that the algorithm is flawed and looks mostly at the amount of money on the account and basically almost ignores strength and previous achievements [look at Gaudin's expectation for the season]

as for real world and your PSG example - if PSG sold all their players and bought only cheap 17-20yo players for the season then people would expect them to go down or have problems with staying in the league, nobody would expect them to win the league with cheap youngsters

people DON'T expect their results based on the budget
people EXPECT PSG to win because of how much money they SPENT on the players that they HAVE
(editado)

It would make sense in the real world but sokker is very far from it in many aspects.
That kind of change needs to be adapted to sokker reality not real life.

I would say current sokker reality will have to adapt to new sokker reality.

New fans mood bonus/penalty rewards those who are good tacticians, who makes good transfers, who balances better between holding good players and develope young ones.

And hurts those who doesnt work on tactics, who are lazy, who just plays to earn money just staying in bottom league, etc.

So its not about making it like in real life. But its similar and natural. Why grass in sokker is green? It is not real life but still some things should be as real as possible, like green grass.

people DON'T expect their results based on the budget

and don't forget that the budget usually isn't visible for fans in RL, or for other users in sokker. Now it is here, at least you can estimate it.

people DON'T expect their results based on the budget
people EXPECT PSG to win because of how much money they SPENT on the players that they HAVE

That's true. Maybe this is why PSG will never sell out their players to build team only around 17-19yo youngs.

That proves that problem is not in algorithm itself (for sure it can be adjusted, but still will never fit perfect to any league), but problem is in teams who are selling out their players.
You just can't do it so easy without consequences in new system.