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No, he's right. It's not because the game pushes you towards trading that you cannot say that that IS the problem of this game, even if you are trading yourself.
You can say, it's hypocrite, but it's not if the game doesn't give you good alternatives to make money in a more sportive way.
You can say, it's hypocrite, but it's not if the game doesn't give you good alternatives to make money in a more sportive way.
I know we are not given much option. I won Czech first division and national cup in one season and I have received much lower award than what I get from sale of one young player. Playing at top level is only about prestige, otherwise it is financially not worth it. No additional taxes will ever change it.
BTW, anyone knows of someone that would love his team to be destoyed 10-0 in every match against human manager and win 4-0 in every match against bots?
Anyone know of someone that would love to wait 4 or 5 season to change that situation?
Because that's what new users see when they arrive. If you expect them to automatically praise training development of players, you are living in a parallel dimension: they will give the game 3 or 4 logins and if they dont get a single bit of joy from the game, they just quit.
Do you see an alternative to change this situation? Cause it is known to be a slow paced game and it's normal that you need to build up your team strength to be able to take on teams that are playing for years, if not more than a decade, continuing building on their team.
The biggest problem now is that newer teams need to build up their economy to be able to improve their trainers, trainees, A-team players, youth and stadium.
My opinion is that new users are mostly in need of 4 things:
1) A decent tutorial with money prices for each achievement.
2) A decent starting team with at least 3 or 4 young prospects and at least 3 or 4 decent A-team players so they can build up strength faster and have some perspective to work to.
3) A decent coaching staff with 1 head coach with at least 2 or 3 unearthly skills and between 1 and 3 decent assistants around +- outstanding level
4) A bigger stadium (10k) so their income is much bigger than the peanuts they receive from revenue today.
So in the end, it all comes down to money.
But let's be honest... how would you feel if new teams would catch up to you after a couple of months? Wouldn't you wonder what you are doing wrong then?
All those years in vain, working towards the team you have now and being trampled by newbies. They too need to understand that beating older teams will take more then ''weeks'' if not ''months'', but nobody wants to play these games anymore.
And so the conclusion is easy, but I don't know if the devs will see this as well, I doubt it honestly.
Each country is in need of a bigger league system to play in. Most smaller teams (less than 100 users) need at least 6 levels in which they should build their team.
6th division for all newcomers, in a division with only bot teams or max 1 or 2 other new users.
5th division for all promoted new teams, combinated with bot teams, so you can compete against similar strong teams like yourself, mixed with bots to prevent you from relegation to 6th again.
4th division, similar to 5th, but with slightly stronger bots in them, so you actually need to develop your team strength to not relegate again, but with some effort, you should be able to play safe and slightly continue to grow.
3th division with mostly real users, and max 1 or 2 bot teams, to prevent direct relegation without play-off matches, right away, unless your development stopped after the promotion from 4th to 3th
2nd division, the semi pro division with only real, experienced users, where you need to be strong enough to not relegate right away.
1st class, the elite of the country.
Also, countries with 100 users need a different league system as the 1-3-9 we have now...
It should be 1-2-4-8-16-32
Countries between 100 and 400 users need a similar system, but they also need an extra 7th division, where the newcomers play in a league with mostly bots.
Here the system should be 1-2-4-8-16-32-96
Big countries with 400+ users need the same, but with an 8th division for the newcomers with a similar system, but here, slightly different...
1-2-4-8-16-64-256 - 512
This sytem will give a newcomer almost always a direct promotion towards 7th, but then they will play against 50% users, who might be tough to win against in the first seasons, but because of the 50% bots, they will be able to prevent themselves from relegation easy.
On the other hand...promotion towards 6th will only be possible for champions. The positive side is that IF you can promote to 6th, only the last will relegate
A system where champions play each other for one of the 64 tickets to 6th division in a play off system with 2 rounds will decide the promotions.
Then if you are in 6th league, only the champions can promote, but here they must always play a 2 legged play off match, first in the stadium of the player, playing against relegation and the 2nd round in the stadium of the champion, playing for promotion.
After that, it falls back to a 1-2 system, where the champion is promoted always in favor of the last team of the higher division and the 2nd will play a 2-legged play-off match against the 2nd last of the higher division.
With this, newcomers have more perspective and a realistic goal to work towards.
Anyone know of someone that would love to wait 4 or 5 season to change that situation?
Because that's what new users see when they arrive. If you expect them to automatically praise training development of players, you are living in a parallel dimension: they will give the game 3 or 4 logins and if they dont get a single bit of joy from the game, they just quit.
Do you see an alternative to change this situation? Cause it is known to be a slow paced game and it's normal that you need to build up your team strength to be able to take on teams that are playing for years, if not more than a decade, continuing building on their team.
The biggest problem now is that newer teams need to build up their economy to be able to improve their trainers, trainees, A-team players, youth and stadium.
My opinion is that new users are mostly in need of 4 things:
1) A decent tutorial with money prices for each achievement.
2) A decent starting team with at least 3 or 4 young prospects and at least 3 or 4 decent A-team players so they can build up strength faster and have some perspective to work to.
3) A decent coaching staff with 1 head coach with at least 2 or 3 unearthly skills and between 1 and 3 decent assistants around +- outstanding level
4) A bigger stadium (10k) so their income is much bigger than the peanuts they receive from revenue today.
So in the end, it all comes down to money.
But let's be honest... how would you feel if new teams would catch up to you after a couple of months? Wouldn't you wonder what you are doing wrong then?
All those years in vain, working towards the team you have now and being trampled by newbies. They too need to understand that beating older teams will take more then ''weeks'' if not ''months'', but nobody wants to play these games anymore.
And so the conclusion is easy, but I don't know if the devs will see this as well, I doubt it honestly.
Each country is in need of a bigger league system to play in. Most smaller teams (less than 100 users) need at least 6 levels in which they should build their team.
6th division for all newcomers, in a division with only bot teams or max 1 or 2 other new users.
5th division for all promoted new teams, combinated with bot teams, so you can compete against similar strong teams like yourself, mixed with bots to prevent you from relegation to 6th again.
4th division, similar to 5th, but with slightly stronger bots in them, so you actually need to develop your team strength to not relegate again, but with some effort, you should be able to play safe and slightly continue to grow.
3th division with mostly real users, and max 1 or 2 bot teams, to prevent direct relegation without play-off matches, right away, unless your development stopped after the promotion from 4th to 3th
2nd division, the semi pro division with only real, experienced users, where you need to be strong enough to not relegate right away.
1st class, the elite of the country.
Also, countries with 100 users need a different league system as the 1-3-9 we have now...
It should be 1-2-4-8-16-32
Countries between 100 and 400 users need a similar system, but they also need an extra 7th division, where the newcomers play in a league with mostly bots.
Here the system should be 1-2-4-8-16-32-96
Big countries with 400+ users need the same, but with an 8th division for the newcomers with a similar system, but here, slightly different...
1-2-4-8-16-64-256 - 512
This sytem will give a newcomer almost always a direct promotion towards 7th, but then they will play against 50% users, who might be tough to win against in the first seasons, but because of the 50% bots, they will be able to prevent themselves from relegation easy.
On the other hand...promotion towards 6th will only be possible for champions. The positive side is that IF you can promote to 6th, only the last will relegate
A system where champions play each other for one of the 64 tickets to 6th division in a play off system with 2 rounds will decide the promotions.
Then if you are in 6th league, only the champions can promote, but here they must always play a 2 legged play off match, first in the stadium of the player, playing against relegation and the 2nd round in the stadium of the champion, playing for promotion.
After that, it falls back to a 1-2 system, where the champion is promoted always in favor of the last team of the higher division and the 2nd will play a 2-legged play-off match against the 2nd last of the higher division.
With this, newcomers have more perspective and a realistic goal to work towards.
Playing at top level is only about prestige
And THIS needs to change! If the devs wants to encourage users to play for the highest possible, then they need to give us a reason to do so!
Playing champion in your country should imo at least give you a nice bonus of 10M!
Champion in 2nd division, imo 2M
Champion in 3th...1M
in 4th...500k
in 5th...300k
in 6th...200k
And THIS needs to change! If the devs wants to encourage users to play for the highest possible, then they need to give us a reason to do so!
Playing champion in your country should imo at least give you a nice bonus of 10M!
Champion in 2nd division, imo 2M
Champion in 3th...1M
in 4th...500k
in 5th...300k
in 6th...200k
And in addition...relegation should give you nothing! no sponsor bonus, no supporter subscription bonus. This way you WILL try to prevent yourself from relegating.
(editado)
(editado)
Do you see an alternative to change this situation? Cause it is known to be a slow paced game and it's normal that you need to build up your team strength to be able to take on teams that are playing for years, if not more than a decade, continuing building on their team.
The biggest problem now is that newer teams need to build up their economy to be able to improve their trainers, trainees, A-team players, youth and stadium.
I can throw 20 different ideas, but one of them would be: new users can choose up to 5 players from bot teams of their own league and forcibly incorporate them.
We should then define precisely "new users" (up to when we consider them "new"?).
These would give them a chance to improve their squad if they make good choises. Start with better trainees that are not randomly selected, speed up the elimination of bots (there are some quite decent bots out there that remain fighting a couple of seasons) and even rescue valuable players that would otherwise have to be part of the NT to be saved when the bot dies.
This last reason would be also a reason to contact the new user by the older users, asking them to buy this or that player "to save him". That way, they will be incorporated to their country community a lot faster.
The biggest problem now is that newer teams need to build up their economy to be able to improve their trainers, trainees, A-team players, youth and stadium.
I can throw 20 different ideas, but one of them would be: new users can choose up to 5 players from bot teams of their own league and forcibly incorporate them.
We should then define precisely "new users" (up to when we consider them "new"?).
These would give them a chance to improve their squad if they make good choises. Start with better trainees that are not randomly selected, speed up the elimination of bots (there are some quite decent bots out there that remain fighting a couple of seasons) and even rescue valuable players that would otherwise have to be part of the NT to be saved when the bot dies.
This last reason would be also a reason to contact the new user by the older users, asking them to buy this or that player "to save him". That way, they will be incorporated to their country community a lot faster.
Have you read the entire post? Cause I just gave a decent alternative for new teams...
Yes, I was just adding one more to your list. I agree with most of your proposals.
The stadium one, I would make it the new starting size forever and pardon the cost of seats until they change the size for the first time. This way, the users will not have to worry about their stadium for the first 5 season or so.
The stadium one, I would make it the new starting size forever and pardon the cost of seats until they change the size for the first time. This way, the users will not have to worry about their stadium for the first 5 season or so.
My idea was more towards avoiding to introduce a lot of money directly in the game in times of inflation (because new teams with more money, means adding more money to the market and we dont want that), so I think letting the new users choose players from bot teams, delays the entry of that money to the market directly. New users wont get the help as money but as players (and they would have to choose them wisely, without knowing their skills) so it gives you an immediate challenge. You can have 15 days to choose your players, something like that.
Because new teams with more money adding not much more to the market, but rather be able to increase their stadium and improve their coaches.
If they choose to spent it on trainees without expanding their stadium and improving their coaches, they will probably not earn their money back soon
(editado)
If they choose to spent it on trainees without expanding their stadium and improving their coaches, they will probably not earn their money back soon
(editado)
There is nothing beneficial for new teams, on the contrary, there are many things that are harmful. useless players and coaches. wages paid while trying to sell them. If you are not an experienced user, it will be a very difficult start. Definitely, new teams should be given better players, coaches and a stadium.
You can say, it's hypocrite, but it's not if the game doesn't give you good alternatives to make money in a more sportive way.
Exactly. It's stupid, but that's how this game works today. There's no real alternative, that's the problem that I'm writing about.
And still, I wouldn't call training a player for 3.5 months fast trading. I trained him since beginning of September, he had 18 training pops (without stamina, "few fast jumps", lol). Simply a lucky buy (undervalued), great training prospect and TOP talent. He's already at higher price than I agreed with the buyer, a 2 skills better Minnig went for over 25m euro more than him (over 40m price....).
Another thing is that I train 2 of my own youth players (23yo, 21yo) and players that I bought as 16-18yo who now have 21, 24 and 24 years (both in the beginning of 2022, so almost 2 years of training). So yeah, what a trader I am...
(editado)
Exactly. It's stupid, but that's how this game works today. There's no real alternative, that's the problem that I'm writing about.
And still, I wouldn't call training a player for 3.5 months fast trading. I trained him since beginning of September, he had 18 training pops (without stamina, "few fast jumps", lol). Simply a lucky buy (undervalued), great training prospect and TOP talent. He's already at higher price than I agreed with the buyer, a 2 skills better Minnig went for over 25m euro more than him (over 40m price....).
Another thing is that I train 2 of my own youth players (23yo, 21yo) and players that I bought as 16-18yo who now have 21, 24 and 24 years (both in the beginning of 2022, so almost 2 years of training). So yeah, what a trader I am...
(editado)
Wow, that's a bad beat. At first I thought you were whining but then I saw two injuries AND a red card early. Ouch :(
That's what you said couple of weeks ago to me after introducing the tax :
Obviously you are one of the mass traders who sells players this way, so you can be angry with that change, but please stop with the nonsense of "no players will be sold now", "young players will have higher prices" :P
Iosif Manolescu [39012014]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2024-01-01 KSK Meeuwen Das Urgestein 26 821 920 zł
(449 000 zł)
2023-09-02 TTT174 KSK Meeuwen 2 000 000 zł
(139 000 zł)
Ivica Tomić [39035382]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2023-12-14 KSK Meeuwen Omladinac 39 800 400 zł
(575 000 zł)
2023-10-02 fap KSK Meeuwen 4 696 000 zł
(423 000 zł)
Your latest transfers. This is exactly why this change is GOOD and the tax should be even higher in the first 10 weeks.
This game has turned into fast trading bullshit.
Calling me a mass trader who uses the market for fast trading and that is "destroying the game". I gave the same arguments you are giving now, to defend yourself, to say I'm not a "fast-trader". I have several longterm training players and with two latest transfers I got bigger profit because of nice talent, undervalued when bought and supertalented.
Offcourse you didn't react on it back in the days... You also say a player who is trained by you for 3,5 months isn't fast trading, but my player who was 17 weeks with me is an example of fast-trading buullshit?
You are making the same money and more with 1 player as with my 2 "mass-trading" transfers. I can only call it a bit cynical.
BTW I paid 19% tax, and you will pay 10%.
You are clearly an experienced manager, smart and with good ideas, but a little bit les harshness would suit you. It's not all black and white/ I can also give examples in your team you are just an enormous lucky manager who uses the market to earn money on other managers. But the truth is more complicated. I hope you see it with other managers too. Live and let live.
Congrats with your transfer by the way!
Obviously you are one of the mass traders who sells players this way, so you can be angry with that change, but please stop with the nonsense of "no players will be sold now", "young players will have higher prices" :P
Iosif Manolescu [39012014]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2024-01-01 KSK Meeuwen Das Urgestein 26 821 920 zł
(449 000 zł)
2023-09-02 TTT174 KSK Meeuwen 2 000 000 zł
(139 000 zł)
Ivica Tomić [39035382]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2023-12-14 KSK Meeuwen Omladinac 39 800 400 zł
(575 000 zł)
2023-10-02 fap KSK Meeuwen 4 696 000 zł
(423 000 zł)
Your latest transfers. This is exactly why this change is GOOD and the tax should be even higher in the first 10 weeks.
This game has turned into fast trading bullshit.
Calling me a mass trader who uses the market for fast trading and that is "destroying the game". I gave the same arguments you are giving now, to defend yourself, to say I'm not a "fast-trader". I have several longterm training players and with two latest transfers I got bigger profit because of nice talent, undervalued when bought and supertalented.
Offcourse you didn't react on it back in the days... You also say a player who is trained by you for 3,5 months isn't fast trading, but my player who was 17 weeks with me is an example of fast-trading buullshit?
You are making the same money and more with 1 player as with my 2 "mass-trading" transfers. I can only call it a bit cynical.
BTW I paid 19% tax, and you will pay 10%.
You are clearly an experienced manager, smart and with good ideas, but a little bit les harshness would suit you. It's not all black and white/ I can also give examples in your team you are just an enormous lucky manager who uses the market to earn money on other managers. But the truth is more complicated. I hope you see it with other managers too. Live and let live.
Congrats with your transfer by the way!
My comment was based mostly on the fact that you are using the system to make money (so am I, although I do it rarely because I don't care that much, at the moment I have 4 empty training slots...) AND you are against the changes that will limit it.
Yes, as I've said, I'm also doing it, but on a much smaller scale, I'm not a mass trader or a regular fast trader. Since 05.09.2023 I bought 1 young player, since 01.06.2023 [over half year] I bought three young players - and I still have all of them in my team. So it's not mass trading, I simply made a good transfer with the Greek, he has one of best talents I had, then I received a nice offer and decided that... I probably won't make much more money after training him for another season - THIS is why the situation is ridiculous in my opinion.
At the same time, I see that this whole situation is simply bad for the game and I would be glad if they changed it, even though it could lower my income (not sure it would, in case of Sfouggaras obviously yes, in general - not really).
Maybe I was too fast to call you a mass trader, if that bothered you then I'm sorry for that, no hard feelings.
(editado)
Yes, as I've said, I'm also doing it, but on a much smaller scale, I'm not a mass trader or a regular fast trader. Since 05.09.2023 I bought 1 young player, since 01.06.2023 [over half year] I bought three young players - and I still have all of them in my team. So it's not mass trading, I simply made a good transfer with the Greek, he has one of best talents I had, then I received a nice offer and decided that... I probably won't make much more money after training him for another season - THIS is why the situation is ridiculous in my opinion.
At the same time, I see that this whole situation is simply bad for the game and I would be glad if they changed it, even though it could lower my income (not sure it would, in case of Sfouggaras obviously yes, in general - not really).
Maybe I was too fast to call you a mass trader, if that bothered you then I'm sorry for that, no hard feelings.
(editado)
