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Asunto: Worldwar
I can agree with you to some extent on the points you made on EU, ...yet, you completely missed my point, nor the implications it might have towards a potential world conflict.
The point was: that a "oppressing dictator"(in your words), can and does use the same excuse that his predecessor(Stalin) used in 1941, just before a clear treacherous attack in stabbing Poland in the back, on 17 september 1939 hence - aggression in the WW2 by soviet russia, all in the name of "anti-facism" they murdered millions of people (katyn) and kept Poland under control for half a century, until the fall of the soviet union 1989-92.
Poland was never a fascist state, definitely not in 1939 (hence that many jews) when Hitler and Stalin attacked - together, just like Ukraine is not a fascist state now. Precisely my point, it is the nonsense RT (moscow state controlled) propaganda spreads, which unfortunately many people seem to buy... or give "equal weight" to - which is absurd or irrational, to the point: Most Ukrainians are neither loyal Russians nor fascists
..just have a look at the results of the parliamentary elections 2012 before the conflict.
And even worse, the Russian propaganda even now... plays down the role of Stalin: 1939-1941, making him a national hero :-o, the "conqueror of fascism" which is a disgraceful hypocrisy, that most Russians are forced, a unfortunately do believe more and more... In Russia now "fascism" is only a justification for war, and a way to sway public opinion towards it, towards more spending for military in Russia.
Its a bit like posting Hitler on buses in Berlin, to commemorate the "victory against communism!" :-]
(editado)
The point was: that a "oppressing dictator"(in your words), can and does use the same excuse that his predecessor(Stalin) used in 1941, just before a clear treacherous attack in stabbing Poland in the back, on 17 september 1939 hence - aggression in the WW2 by soviet russia, all in the name of "anti-facism" they murdered millions of people (katyn) and kept Poland under control for half a century, until the fall of the soviet union 1989-92.
Poland was never a fascist state, definitely not in 1939 (hence that many jews) when Hitler and Stalin attacked - together, just like Ukraine is not a fascist state now. Precisely my point, it is the nonsense RT (moscow state controlled) propaganda spreads, which unfortunately many people seem to buy... or give "equal weight" to - which is absurd or irrational, to the point: Most Ukrainians are neither loyal Russians nor fascists
..just have a look at the results of the parliamentary elections 2012 before the conflict.
And even worse, the Russian propaganda even now... plays down the role of Stalin: 1939-1941, making him a national hero :-o, the "conqueror of fascism" which is a disgraceful hypocrisy, that most Russians are forced, a unfortunately do believe more and more... In Russia now "fascism" is only a justification for war, and a way to sway public opinion towards it, towards more spending for military in Russia.
Its a bit like posting Hitler on buses in Berlin, to commemorate the "victory against communism!" :-]
(editado)
..just have a look at the results of the parliamentary elections 2012 before the conflict.
I think we all understand that elections in those condition of propaganda and western pressure (done with governemnt, money, social media trends etc), and russian resistence (done almost by the same ways) are not democratic at all. It is about to choose from a puppet of one side or from the other, al covered by ideology and rethoric.
For the rest. I can agree with you, the only thing I doubt about is if uckrainians would had a better life under Moscow and the "oppressing dictator" or under Berlin and its banks.
I think geo-political reasons show that Moscow is way the easier and simpler choice (but nobody can look the future!)
I think we all understand that elections in those condition of propaganda and western pressure (done with governemnt, money, social media trends etc), and russian resistence (done almost by the same ways) are not democratic at all. It is about to choose from a puppet of one side or from the other, al covered by ideology and rethoric.
For the rest. I can agree with you, the only thing I doubt about is if uckrainians would had a better life under Moscow and the "oppressing dictator" or under Berlin and its banks.
I think geo-political reasons show that Moscow is way the easier and simpler choice (but nobody can look the future!)
I wonder, what system do you think would be best for countries if the current democracy is just a load of bs? Because it's easy to piss on everything but don't have a clue yourself what would be better .... And please don't come up with some imaginary, unworkable and unrealistic system based on even more ideology and rethoric crap.
Berlin and its banks
Dont point fingers at Berlin, point at your corrupt government.
Same fate awaits my country. Not because IMF and Germany are evil. Because government is corrupt and inept to put borrowed money to good use. Nobody is forcing them to take money.
Dont point fingers at Berlin, point at your corrupt government.
Same fate awaits my country. Not because IMF and Germany are evil. Because government is corrupt and inept to put borrowed money to good use. Nobody is forcing them to take money.
Dont point fingers at Berlin, point at your corrupt government.
why?
There was not talking before the election (not italian, nor european) about founding terrorists and nazi's with my money.
this is a demonstration of the lack of democracy.
Same fate awaits my country. Not because IMF and Germany are evil. Because government is corrupt and inept to put borrowed money to good use. Nobody is forcing them to take money.
I think you are discussing economic problems here.
well I think you're wrong, countries have their problems, but some more are added by an EU that is useful only for the big banks of north europe. EU and its lack of democracies in fact is used to avoid public control over laws.
About corruption, is always useful to remember that the euro common currency loose fiscal constraints, encouraging corruption. As simple as it is.
why?
There was not talking before the election (not italian, nor european) about founding terrorists and nazi's with my money.
this is a demonstration of the lack of democracy.
Same fate awaits my country. Not because IMF and Germany are evil. Because government is corrupt and inept to put borrowed money to good use. Nobody is forcing them to take money.
I think you are discussing economic problems here.
well I think you're wrong, countries have their problems, but some more are added by an EU that is useful only for the big banks of north europe. EU and its lack of democracies in fact is used to avoid public control over laws.
About corruption, is always useful to remember that the euro common currency loose fiscal constraints, encouraging corruption. As simple as it is.
Dont point fingers at Berlin, point at your corrupt government.
+1
EDIT: corrupt and/or incompetent
(editado)
+1
EDIT: corrupt and/or incompetent
(editado)
Im talking about Ukraines choices: EU or Russia and how you compare those two. Not a choice anymore, maybe it never was.
You implied that Berlin would "lure" them in debt and that is why they had to choose between two evils. I disagree, every country is to be blamed for its debts.
You implied that Berlin would "lure" them in debt and that is why they had to choose between two evils. I disagree, every country is to be blamed for its debts.
Im talking about Ukraines choices: EU or Russia and how you compare those two. Not a choice anymore, maybe it never was.
Who is choosing? Ukrainians? LOL.
the war would decide. A war financed by the sides countries.
You implied that Berlin would "lure" them in debt and that is why they had to choose between two evils. I disagree, every country is to be blamed for its debts.
Ehm.
They are in debt right now. Debt is only one of the ways a colony is controlled.
Anyway I don't think "Berlin would "lure" them in debt"
I imply that they are fighting and killing each other right now,
The Ukrainian control by Russia is strategic for Moskow (and for this reason moskow has some interest in having a stabile and growing Ukraine) .
For Berlin Ukraine is only a colony stolen in order to weaken russian strenght in Europe and a country where to take low-cost labour and to resell their technology without borders.
Who is choosing? Ukrainians? LOL.
the war would decide. A war financed by the sides countries.
You implied that Berlin would "lure" them in debt and that is why they had to choose between two evils. I disagree, every country is to be blamed for its debts.
Ehm.
They are in debt right now. Debt is only one of the ways a colony is controlled.
Anyway I don't think "Berlin would "lure" them in debt"
I imply that they are fighting and killing each other right now,
The Ukrainian control by Russia is strategic for Moskow (and for this reason moskow has some interest in having a stabile and growing Ukraine) .
For Berlin Ukraine is only a colony stolen in order to weaken russian strenght in Europe and a country where to take low-cost labour and to resell their technology without borders.
Debt is only one of the ways a colony is controlled.
For Berlin Ukraine is only a colony ...
Here you go again with that nonsense.
(editado)
For Berlin Ukraine is only a colony ...
Here you go again with that nonsense.
(editado)
Im talking about Ukraines choices: EU or Russia and how you compare those two. Not a choice anymore, maybe it never was.
Who is choosing? Ukrainians? LOL.
the war would decide. A war financed by the sides countries.
Im referring to two paths Ukraine might have taken which you mentioned. Im not saying they were literally choosing some shit.
Germany is in debt as well, whos colony is that...
Dont think that Ukrainian debt and Italian are the same thing.
Who is choosing? Ukrainians? LOL.
the war would decide. A war financed by the sides countries.
Im referring to two paths Ukraine might have taken which you mentioned. Im not saying they were literally choosing some shit.
Germany is in debt as well, whos colony is that...
Dont think that Ukrainian debt and Italian are the same thing.
Germany is in debt as well, whos colony is that..
a good question. indeed. I wonder who won that war..
Dont think that Ukrainian debt and Italian are the same thing.
I don't, but maybe both are used in some similar ways.
a good question. indeed. I wonder who won that war..
Dont think that Ukrainian debt and Italian are the same thing.
I don't, but maybe both are used in some similar ways.
I think we all understand that elections in those condition of propaganda and western pressure (done with governement, money, social media trends etc), and russian resistence (done almost by the same ways) are not democratic at all. It is about to choose from a puppet of one side or from the other, al covered by ideology and rethoric.
For the rest. I can agree with you, the only thing I doubt about is if ukrainians would had a better life under Moscow and the "oppressing dictator" or under Berlin and its banks.
I think geo-political reasons show that Moscow is way the easier and simpler choice (but nobody can look the future!)
Unfortunately I cannot agree with you, just because the same could have been said or written about Poland in the 90's.
It is a oversimplification of a problem, which all of eastern Europe is fighting, till this day - if only internally.
And Poland is the living proof of that the "easier and simpler choice" would be a mistake, as we have history from which we can learn, predicting the future is necessary, Ukraine as a Russian puppet state which it was recently, even with their democratically chosen president had two mass protests or revolutions, which lead to were we are today, clearly it didn't work for Ukraine... or Russia for that matter, which is now reacting to their own failure, in as sense... "strengthening its muscles" to say the least, if not to write preparing for war, after already stealing parts of Ukrainian territory. Which is my main point, in this thread, most political actions of Putin's gov. seem to be clear indications Russia is preparing for "something". It is also worth reminding how the "pro-EU" opposition in Ukraine was treated way before the conflict erupted to such, international scale, I mean Viktor Yushchenko and Yulia Tymoshenko of course.
Putin's Russia:
- stirring up old sentiments for "soviet victory" over "facists".
- massive raise in military spending in 2004 and 2010, 2012 consequently.
- largest military exercises since WW2, and many of them near Ukraine, Baltic states, Poland.
- wars in/with neighbouring states, if only Georgia and Ukraine... including the theft of Crimea.
- massive state spending on RT propaganda.
- murders of opposition and journalists. (possibly also the Polish presidential plane)
- increase in emigration from Russia, since 2011 roughly...
- provocations in neighboring countries, like the letter to divide Ukraine with Poland (zyrinovsky?), or the night wolves.
- loud arctic aspirations, and constant military air and water movement in the baltic sea and airspace, near borders of for ex.Sweden.
- recent amnesty of 60.000 prisoners, when Russia already used that kind of stunt in the Chechnyan war when they offered amnesty for prisoners who joined the military on the front in Chechnya,
- cutting the spending for Russian space program, and the WC 2018!, in order to finance military most probably.
- Russian President Vladimir Putin has issued a decree enabling foreign nationals to serve in the Russian military.
- Russia’s naval Syria mediterranean deployment largest since Soviet times (2013).
.. and so on.. if you put all this information together, the message is quite clear...
So in conclusion... Ukraine is not a fascist state, only a weak state (between two (weak)"empires" if you want) under a possible escalation of conflict or invasion (Russian or pro-Russian- no difference), with some hard right-wing politicians and a fascist tiny % minority (like in every country including Russia), and Russia is clearly preparing for a larger conflict or war, while not compromising with EU, for lifting the sanctions, in essence giving up their not bad economic situation which they had in pre-conflict times, and putting most resources into militarisation, and giving way for more propaganda and justification for a open conflict with EU. "bad EU"
Yes, EU has its disadvantages, but in no way it was anti-russian before the conflict, Merkel loved Putin 3 years ago... :] On the other hand NATO capability to defend is unknown, or possibly weaker than assumed, almost useless without physical american support, if things turn ugly. The parade in the baltic states, was a bit laughable in my personal opinion, maybe slightly deterring...
(editado)
For the rest. I can agree with you, the only thing I doubt about is if ukrainians would had a better life under Moscow and the "oppressing dictator" or under Berlin and its banks.
I think geo-political reasons show that Moscow is way the easier and simpler choice (but nobody can look the future!)
Unfortunately I cannot agree with you, just because the same could have been said or written about Poland in the 90's.
It is a oversimplification of a problem, which all of eastern Europe is fighting, till this day - if only internally.
And Poland is the living proof of that the "easier and simpler choice" would be a mistake, as we have history from which we can learn, predicting the future is necessary, Ukraine as a Russian puppet state which it was recently, even with their democratically chosen president had two mass protests or revolutions, which lead to were we are today, clearly it didn't work for Ukraine... or Russia for that matter, which is now reacting to their own failure, in as sense... "strengthening its muscles" to say the least, if not to write preparing for war, after already stealing parts of Ukrainian territory. Which is my main point, in this thread, most political actions of Putin's gov. seem to be clear indications Russia is preparing for "something". It is also worth reminding how the "pro-EU" opposition in Ukraine was treated way before the conflict erupted to such, international scale, I mean Viktor Yushchenko and Yulia Tymoshenko of course.
Putin's Russia:
- stirring up old sentiments for "soviet victory" over "facists".
- massive raise in military spending in 2004 and 2010, 2012 consequently.
- largest military exercises since WW2, and many of them near Ukraine, Baltic states, Poland.
- wars in/with neighbouring states, if only Georgia and Ukraine... including the theft of Crimea.
- massive state spending on RT propaganda.
- murders of opposition and journalists. (possibly also the Polish presidential plane)
- increase in emigration from Russia, since 2011 roughly...
- provocations in neighboring countries, like the letter to divide Ukraine with Poland (zyrinovsky?), or the night wolves.
- loud arctic aspirations, and constant military air and water movement in the baltic sea and airspace, near borders of for ex.Sweden.
- recent amnesty of 60.000 prisoners, when Russia already used that kind of stunt in the Chechnyan war when they offered amnesty for prisoners who joined the military on the front in Chechnya,
- cutting the spending for Russian space program, and the WC 2018!, in order to finance military most probably.
- Russian President Vladimir Putin has issued a decree enabling foreign nationals to serve in the Russian military.
- Russia’s naval Syria mediterranean deployment largest since Soviet times (2013).
.. and so on.. if you put all this information together, the message is quite clear...
So in conclusion... Ukraine is not a fascist state, only a weak state (between two (weak)"empires" if you want) under a possible escalation of conflict or invasion (Russian or pro-Russian- no difference), with some hard right-wing politicians and a fascist tiny % minority (like in every country including Russia), and Russia is clearly preparing for a larger conflict or war, while not compromising with EU, for lifting the sanctions, in essence giving up their not bad economic situation which they had in pre-conflict times, and putting most resources into militarisation, and giving way for more propaganda and justification for a open conflict with EU. "bad EU"
Yes, EU has its disadvantages, but in no way it was anti-russian before the conflict, Merkel loved Putin 3 years ago... :] On the other hand NATO capability to defend is unknown, or possibly weaker than assumed, almost useless without physical american support, if things turn ugly. The parade in the baltic states, was a bit laughable in my personal opinion, maybe slightly deterring...
(editado)
there are a lot of things to answer:
1) you can't compare poland (that has a border with Germany!!!) with Ukraine.
Geography first of all. Germany would never accept a destabilized country on its border.
But also for economical reasons, poland is useful for keeping the labour wage low in Germany and eastern europe, nobody needs to break that toy.
2) you can't compare the communist Russia during cold war, with this Russia you have now. It's weaker, it's a capitalistic country, it has stability problems etc etc First of all is becoming a regional power, instead of a world one.
3) you can't forget what is "pro EU opposition" in Ukraine, it was proven that they got money and protection from CIA and EU, read the leaks. Look at the "orange revolution" it was PLANNED in Washington, now nobody denies it.
If one fails to recognize it, it is useless to discuss.
We should recognize that it was a war since it started, made in Ukraine by west vs Russia, in order to steal a colony from the enemy.
A war done with different ways, with money and with social media, then with weapon and violence, with financing armored groups and with economic sanctions (look it was done BOTH SIDES this way, there is not a good guy in this story)
4)So in conclusion... Ukraine is not a fascist state, only a weak state
I'll say that Ukraine is never been a state for real. What do you call a state? a puppet governemt paid and controlled by another country's gov?
Anyway I agree with you it is not a fascist state (for now.. ;) )
5) Russia is clearly preparing for a larger conflict or war
maybe you're right.
Bu I want ask you: what do you think could happen to the Putin control over Russia if he doesn't do it? What are the internal situation? how the internal stability is granted? What kind of powers (army, big energy companies) should he confront with?
I think this were the ONLY logical answer, if he think to keep the power with him. (And we all know that Putin want it)
I would make the same question on the other side, but is way hard to find an answer.
6)EU has its disadvantages, but in no way it was anti-russian before the conflict, Merkel loved Putin 3 years ago... :]
I think everybody sees that this is not something decided in Berlin or Paris or London.
money come from washington. and the sage says "follow the money".
1) you can't compare poland (that has a border with Germany!!!) with Ukraine.
Geography first of all. Germany would never accept a destabilized country on its border.
But also for economical reasons, poland is useful for keeping the labour wage low in Germany and eastern europe, nobody needs to break that toy.
2) you can't compare the communist Russia during cold war, with this Russia you have now. It's weaker, it's a capitalistic country, it has stability problems etc etc First of all is becoming a regional power, instead of a world one.
3) you can't forget what is "pro EU opposition" in Ukraine, it was proven that they got money and protection from CIA and EU, read the leaks. Look at the "orange revolution" it was PLANNED in Washington, now nobody denies it.
If one fails to recognize it, it is useless to discuss.
We should recognize that it was a war since it started, made in Ukraine by west vs Russia, in order to steal a colony from the enemy.
A war done with different ways, with money and with social media, then with weapon and violence, with financing armored groups and with economic sanctions (look it was done BOTH SIDES this way, there is not a good guy in this story)
4)So in conclusion... Ukraine is not a fascist state, only a weak state
I'll say that Ukraine is never been a state for real. What do you call a state? a puppet governemt paid and controlled by another country's gov?
Anyway I agree with you it is not a fascist state (for now.. ;) )
5) Russia is clearly preparing for a larger conflict or war
maybe you're right.
Bu I want ask you: what do you think could happen to the Putin control over Russia if he doesn't do it? What are the internal situation? how the internal stability is granted? What kind of powers (army, big energy companies) should he confront with?
I think this were the ONLY logical answer, if he think to keep the power with him. (And we all know that Putin want it)
I would make the same question on the other side, but is way hard to find an answer.
6)EU has its disadvantages, but in no way it was anti-russian before the conflict, Merkel loved Putin 3 years ago... :]
I think everybody sees that this is not something decided in Berlin or Paris or London.
money come from washington. and the sage says "follow the money".
1) current Poland no, but Poland in the 90's as I wrote - yes, Germany was broken in half then, a was starting to pull itself together after the collapse of soviet union. Germany-Poland, and Poland-Ukraine relations are quite similar, exactly due to geography, but there also is a time delay... Ukraine is to Poland, what Poland is to Germany, concerning labour cost.
1914-1922
2) I am only comparing it - in its aspirations for domination in area, and land... comparing it to the beginning of Soviet Russia, WW1 - 1918-20's - when Soviet Russia was forming, fighting (Independence) wars, with Ukraine, Latvia, Poland. :-] Of course times are different, but when you look at the bigger picture, then the 90's privatization did not change as much as you might think, Yes, the countries gained freedom and a more free market economies, but most o the legislation is still soviet - literally, even in the ex-soviet states. Most politicians on the scene, are the same ones... some of whom are KGB agents like Putin, to make any mistake about that... just like Berlusconi is still influential in Italy, he was already on the political scene in the late 80's when the world was very different, and most eastern Europe was CCCP, its often the same people in charge "pulling the threads", only 30.35 years older - maybe not the same people but literally but the same mentality. Read uo on Putin's beginning and how he got into power...
3)I do not need any leaks, as in a free world you are allowed to be sponsored by whoever you want.
In my view its only a counter-balance to the ex/soviet clans. Its not a "american evil plan" as it is propagated to be, it Ukrainians asking for help, to free their politics out of Moscow's influence including KGB, its quite simple to me, if you can choose out of two - lets say employer, you pick the one that gives you more freedom.
4) well... yes and no, officially acording to international law which russia accepted until 2014, there are a nation state since 1992, that is a simple fact, on a philosophical level, maybe that statement is true, but its also true that Ukraine was never allowed by Moscow to stand on its own feet, they were starved, killed, annexed, invaded... and they still fight for their full independence, and have their revolutions, for which they seek support anywhere they can get it, to oppose russia, EU and US are pretty much the only options. Don't make a mistake, for EU and US Ukraine is not much more than a investment, (which might, or might not pan out) its up to Ukrainian people how they play it against their history-long oppressors, who russify them on every occasion (as they used to do with Poland), and unfortunately they often succeed at that. :-] EU and US will not go into a war with Russia for a bit of Ukraine, they can however help Ukraine to defend themselves, which unfortunatelly might escalate, that is why the west is stalling, and reacting weakly. On the other hand it only makes the russian offensive easier 0 its a balancing act on both sides and Ukraine is in the middle :-], just like Poland was in the 20's and 40' .
5) I write those things, but I hope that I am wrong... :-]
That is a very good, and worrying question, we will not know for a long time as Putin is extending his spell by changing the law, so he might stay for even longer, Medvedev might be a more liberal leader, or we might get a even worse maniac like Zhirinovsky in charge... but most probably its nothing to do with Individuals, as there '91 August Putsch leaves us unaware of how deeply the KGB is rooted in the current Russian government, and who if not Putin is acctually in charge of this foreign strategy since 2014.
6) There is a key issue here, Its is not relevant were the decisions take place or where the money comes from... Washinghton, London or Berlin, Roma maybe... the point is the EU and US, and NATO the whole western world are all separately reacting (in a similar way) to Russian actions, not vice-versa. This stealing of Crimea was a Russian surprise that took the whole world by surprise, which Putin even said that this was his goal for this year... :-] he said it. In the name of Russia/Russians. He said that he didn't send troops there, only to say he did after he stole what he wanted, after a parodic referendum and annexation... It is all obvious and devious. Also all the arguments of "west" sponsorship fall apart, if you only think of the Russian pressure, and kgb murders that keep Ukraine under Moscow's control for that many years, just as they did... Who sponsored Yanukovich into power? Why was the opposition jailed and poisoned?
(editado)
1914-1922
2) I am only comparing it - in its aspirations for domination in area, and land... comparing it to the beginning of Soviet Russia, WW1 - 1918-20's - when Soviet Russia was forming, fighting (Independence) wars, with Ukraine, Latvia, Poland. :-] Of course times are different, but when you look at the bigger picture, then the 90's privatization did not change as much as you might think, Yes, the countries gained freedom and a more free market economies, but most o the legislation is still soviet - literally, even in the ex-soviet states. Most politicians on the scene, are the same ones... some of whom are KGB agents like Putin, to make any mistake about that... just like Berlusconi is still influential in Italy, he was already on the political scene in the late 80's when the world was very different, and most eastern Europe was CCCP, its often the same people in charge "pulling the threads", only 30.35 years older - maybe not the same people but literally but the same mentality. Read uo on Putin's beginning and how he got into power...
3)I do not need any leaks, as in a free world you are allowed to be sponsored by whoever you want.
In my view its only a counter-balance to the ex/soviet clans. Its not a "american evil plan" as it is propagated to be, it Ukrainians asking for help, to free their politics out of Moscow's influence including KGB, its quite simple to me, if you can choose out of two - lets say employer, you pick the one that gives you more freedom.
4) well... yes and no, officially acording to international law which russia accepted until 2014, there are a nation state since 1992, that is a simple fact, on a philosophical level, maybe that statement is true, but its also true that Ukraine was never allowed by Moscow to stand on its own feet, they were starved, killed, annexed, invaded... and they still fight for their full independence, and have their revolutions, for which they seek support anywhere they can get it, to oppose russia, EU and US are pretty much the only options. Don't make a mistake, for EU and US Ukraine is not much more than a investment, (which might, or might not pan out) its up to Ukrainian people how they play it against their history-long oppressors, who russify them on every occasion (as they used to do with Poland), and unfortunately they often succeed at that. :-] EU and US will not go into a war with Russia for a bit of Ukraine, they can however help Ukraine to defend themselves, which unfortunatelly might escalate, that is why the west is stalling, and reacting weakly. On the other hand it only makes the russian offensive easier 0 its a balancing act on both sides and Ukraine is in the middle :-], just like Poland was in the 20's and 40' .
5) I write those things, but I hope that I am wrong... :-]
That is a very good, and worrying question, we will not know for a long time as Putin is extending his spell by changing the law, so he might stay for even longer, Medvedev might be a more liberal leader, or we might get a even worse maniac like Zhirinovsky in charge... but most probably its nothing to do with Individuals, as there '91 August Putsch leaves us unaware of how deeply the KGB is rooted in the current Russian government, and who if not Putin is acctually in charge of this foreign strategy since 2014.
6) There is a key issue here, Its is not relevant were the decisions take place or where the money comes from... Washinghton, London or Berlin, Roma maybe... the point is the EU and US, and NATO the whole western world are all separately reacting (in a similar way) to Russian actions, not vice-versa. This stealing of Crimea was a Russian surprise that took the whole world by surprise, which Putin even said that this was his goal for this year... :-] he said it. In the name of Russia/Russians. He said that he didn't send troops there, only to say he did after he stole what he wanted, after a parodic referendum and annexation... It is all obvious and devious. Also all the arguments of "west" sponsorship fall apart, if you only think of the Russian pressure, and kgb murders that keep Ukraine under Moscow's control for that many years, just as they did... Who sponsored Yanukovich into power? Why was the opposition jailed and poisoned?
(editado)
1) so I agree!
2)Most politicians on the scene, are the same ones..
after the ww2 and the fall of fascism in Italy almost every fascist politician and administrator got "democratic".
It is "normal" while it's sick..
3)lets say employer, you pick the one that gives you more freedom.
Or the one that pays more.
4) I disagree.
5) I think we should better not find out the alternatives..
6) the point is the EU and US, and NATO the whole western world are all separately reacting (in a similar way) to Russian actions, not vice-versa.
I disagree, you can't count the crimea militar operation as an invasion and in the same time not count the "orange revolution" etc as if those were really "internal affairs".
those are the same thing. Even if formally are not, in reality those are only two different paths to lead a war.
The aggressor is US/UE, the aggressed is Russia (not Ukraine that doesn't exist before, and will not exist after). It was plain clear since the start.
(editado)
2)Most politicians on the scene, are the same ones..
after the ww2 and the fall of fascism in Italy almost every fascist politician and administrator got "democratic".
It is "normal" while it's sick..
3)lets say employer, you pick the one that gives you more freedom.
Or the one that pays more.
4) I disagree.
5) I think we should better not find out the alternatives..
6) the point is the EU and US, and NATO the whole western world are all separately reacting (in a similar way) to Russian actions, not vice-versa.
I disagree, you can't count the crimea militar operation as an invasion and in the same time not count the "orange revolution" etc as if those were really "internal affairs".
those are the same thing. Even if formally are not, in reality those are only two different paths to lead a war.
The aggressor is US/UE, the aggressed is Russia (not Ukraine that doesn't exist before, and will not exist after). It was plain clear since the start.
(editado)