Asunto: »Political & economic ideologies (communism, capitalism et

It is easy and common buy politics, laws on demand, judge, policeman in capitalism. Now you will say that this has nothing to do with capitalism but you will be wrong :)
Would I? Isnt biggest corruption actually in countries without free market? Isnt it easier corrupt poor than prosperous? Only difference is that in earlier systems it was completely normal and unquestionable. People were automatically bringing gifts to administration in socialism or feudalism because they expected better treatment, not because good social relations or moral values.

Isnt it easier corrupt poor than prosperous?
Well in capitalism is more of poor people. So according to your words. There is easier to corrupt in capitalism than in communism.

unbelievable that here are people that dare to write that in communisme ter eis less poor people than in capitalism...
unbelievable, because even people that lived "under" communis, know better! They all fled the same way; all people in the world flee to the free markets to the rightwing countries with personareedom and respect for property and right formost human rights...

and it is exactly opposite of what communism and socialism stands for.

To all idiots that support communism or socialism, or are simply calling themselves "anti-capitalism"...screw you, you are her eonline playing sokker; tha tis all developped and paid for by capitalism.... please find some othe rcountry to go to; like north korea... then I would take you serious

Well no, in socialism was everyone poor so everyone was easy to corrupt. You shall now say that nobody was rich so he hadnt money for corrupt. Thats why I am using term gifts. It were for example eggs, meat, fruit, wine or something like that. While in capitalism supply depended on demand, in communism not. That was reason that demand on some things was big while supply was limited. This led to other corruption, gray economics and inadequate prices.

Hey this is just discussion. Everybody has different priorities, some play devil´s advocate and so on.

But you have good point that best measure of well-being is migration of people.

Capitalism rewards creativity, hard-work, self-responsibility.

Errr... in cartoons, maybe.

It encourages cooperation, because it needs coworkers, investors and clients. That way it also get countries together. You shall get what you want by voluntary exchange of goods and services. In capitalism you shall be good, honest and nice as you shall be good, honest and nice in any competitive game.


I'm sorry, Red, but that seems to be to capitalism what Bakunin was to anarchy: an expression of wishes rather than a description of reality.
I guess you can find theorist claiming that capitalism brings all that, but you can't really get a confirmation of those postulates...
(editado)

Errr... in cartoons, maybe.
Or in Sokker :)

I'm sorry, Red, but that seems to be to capitalism what Bakunin was to anarchy: an expression of wishes rather than a description of reality.
I guess you can find theorist claiming that capitalism brings all that, but you can't really get a confirmation of those postulates...
Anarchism and socialism were theories which people tried practise, capitalism is practice which people tried theorise. Some argument pls.

unbelievable that here are people that dare to write that in communisme ter eis less poor people than in capitalism...
unbelievable, because even people that lived "under" communis, know better! They all fled the same way; all people in the world flee to the free markets to the rightwing countries with personareedom and respect for property and right formost human rights...

and it is exactly opposite of what communism and socialism stands for.

To all idiots that support communism or socialism, or are simply calling themselves "anti-capitalism"...screw you, you are her eonline playing sokker; tha tis all developped and paid for by capitalism.... please find some othe rcountry to go to; like north korea... then I would take you serious

Well its unbelievable how someone who didnt live in communism can be so mad about communism. And tell someone who lived under communist regime, that he doesnt know better.
Yes i lived under communism. Yes i know better.

But i find it kind of funny from you :-))))).

Well no, in socialism was everyone poor so everyone was easy to corrupt. You shall now say that nobody was rich so he hadnt money for corrupt. Thats why I am using term gifts. It were for example eggs, meat, fruit, wine or something like that. While in capitalism supply depended on demand, in communism not. That was reason that demand on some things was big while supply was limited. This led to other corruption, gray economics and inadequate prices.

Hm. I dont remember how old you are. And if you lived in communism...
No in socialism noone was poor. All were middle class. Well not all, but the majority.
About corruption. You dont see any corruption now? I see. In health care system is it surely worse than it was before. You still can see gifts. But gifts are not enough now. You have to bribe. And corruption in politics is far more worse than it was before.

Anyway, there are only two things i don like now, living in capitalism. Moral values almost vanished from the society. And the second thing is, that i feel that when people are more repressed by the law then there is not so much crime.

yes, but while in communism you was bribing by small presents or allowance for something in capitalism you are bribing by huge money so you are stealing whole nation.
In communism you bribe to get some small advantages but in capitalism you bribe to get huge benefits.
In communism you must hide your property (if it is too high) but in capitalism it is prestige.
In communism you cant destroy nature by business but in capitalism you must have just expensive lawyer.

or some examples from real...
- in capitalism can construction company cheat on material and bribe "man for control"
- in capitalism you can bribe politics to cheat nation

-in communism you can bribe somebody to your son will get better job
-in communism you can bribe somebody for allowance on foreign hollyday

mitch... you are funny... how old are you ?

people in the world flee to the free markets to the rightwing countries with personareedom and respect for property and right formost human rights...
if you read whole thread you must know that we accept that communism and that what was in russia and eastern Europe (totalitarianism) is different. BZ is talking about that pure form of communism which is by me just dream but not bad dream.

To all idiots that support communism or socialism, or are simply calling themselves "anti-capitalism"...screw you, you are her eonline playing sokker; tha tis all developped and paid for by capitalism.... please find some othe rcountry to go to; like north korea... then I would take you serious
Typical statement of young kid who learn nothing from history :-).
Try to talk about what is good in both system and not about that one system is good and one just bad :-). Study more about communism, ask people living there and than make you own opinion based on real facts.

I was child in communism, I shall only remember how poor we were and how gray everything was. My grandfather was badly repressed, but nearly everybody lived badly.
My mother works in hospital for years, so she can compare - healthcare is now much better and proffesional than it used to be without doubt, in and in 80s we were unbelievably behind western europe. She knows that there are some bad practice, there are still some socialist manners(jobs for jobs, arrogance of doctors, clientelism) and farmacentric companies need to be more controlled.

Well my family havent needed corrupt anybody, so I dont know from my experience. We however had to in communism. All postcommunist countries are much more corrupt than these which have never experienced communism. Only exception is maybe Italy.

I wonder what do you mean by moral values.
(editado)

In communism you cant destroy nature by business simply because you cant by business. However communism destroyed our nature and in some cases for many years. The environment improved rapidly, its well proved by studies as well by experiences of relatives. When you were in 70s tried swim in Vltava river you returned totally oiled.
How I said, I have not experiences with bribes, I am taking only data into account.
(editado)

Well its unbelievable how someone who didnt live in communism can be so mad about communism.

Maybe he didn't live, but he have got absolutely right of course.

Seems that we had different experience. Altough my father was an artist and aslo from german ethnic. And you know that such people were persecuated by the regime.

Moral values:
I remember how the children played then. They have done a lot of sports and so on... Now the children just drink alcohol, are loud in the night, they smoke more, they are very rude. That was not then. Parents have to work harder, they come exhausted from work, they arent in mood to spare time with their children. People try so much to be better as the others. They do not care about that they hurt beople when they egoistically try to "climb the ladder". People care more about their career than about their family.
When someone from the society has done something bad then he was punnished by the society which condemned him. Now noone cares. Just about his life. When bad things arent condemned they spread.

Maybe he didn't live, but he have got absolutely right of course.
Seems to matter of opinion. I lived in that time and i say he is false (not absolutely).