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Asunto: »Political & economic ideologies (communism, capitalism et
in first example you have also this possible situation:
- that poor man will kill himself because he has financial problems
- that poor man will kill people around just because he get crazy of his salary
in second example we have negatives too:
- first man will be lazy to work harder and use his great brain, because he is not motivated enough
- first man can take less paid job (because there is not so big difference between high and less paid jobs) and he can make what he likes and waste his talent
- that poor man will kill himself because he has financial problems
- that poor man will kill people around just because he get crazy of his salary
in second example we have negatives too:
- first man will be lazy to work harder and use his great brain, because he is not motivated enough
- first man can take less paid job (because there is not so big difference between high and less paid jobs) and he can make what he likes and waste his talent
In communism, [cut] he will be taxed by system
It was just for example... about system, I lived in communism so I thnik I know how it works better than you can read in your books :-)
It was just for example... about system, I lived in communism so I thnik I know how it works better than you can read in your books :-)
in first example you have also this possible situation:
- that poor man will kill himself because he has financial problems
- that poor man will kill people around just because he get crazy of his salary
I would recommend you to use 'can' instead of 'will', because this is just a possibility. As the Earth can end tomorrow, that is also a possibility.
- that poor man will kill himself because he has financial problems
- that poor man will kill people around just because he get crazy of his salary
I would recommend you to use 'can' instead of 'will', because this is just a possibility. As the Earth can end tomorrow, that is also a possibility.
and that is the point, you get salary according to what talent and skills you was born, your salary has nothing to do with hardworking or with something what you can significantly change yourself.
so capitalism is system about skills or ugly behavior (pig has always the best salaries).
And I dont know why man who was born with simply skills should be bad guy and less paid. That is really system for suicide for some people.
so capitalism is system about skills or ugly behavior (pig has always the best salaries).
And I dont know why man who was born with simply skills should be bad guy and less paid. That is really system for suicide for some people.
btw.. where you read about communism ? What books you read ?
Or better, did you ever live in such a system if you are expert ? I did :-)
books are good things...but reality is reality...
(editado)
Or better, did you ever live in such a system if you are expert ? I did :-)
books are good things...but reality is reality...
(editado)
and that is the point, you get salary according to what talent and skills you was born, your salary has nothing to do with hardworking or with something what you can significantly change yourself.
No. The salary is based on talent and on hardworking. Someone who doesn't work hard but is smart, and someone who isn't that smart but works a lot of time at some project will be paid the same if the end result is the same.
And I dont know why man who was born with simply skills should be bad guy and less paid.
He's not a bad guy, he's just being paid less. Because his skills aren't that valuable as they aren't rare.
Btw, I always exclude communism because communism isn't compatible with real democracy. History has shown that to us. And I'll always defend democracy.
No. The salary is based on talent and on hardworking. Someone who doesn't work hard but is smart, and someone who isn't that smart but works a lot of time at some project will be paid the same if the end result is the same.
And I dont know why man who was born with simply skills should be bad guy and less paid.
He's not a bad guy, he's just being paid less. Because his skills aren't that valuable as they aren't rare.
Btw, I always exclude communism because communism isn't compatible with real democracy. History has shown that to us. And I'll always defend democracy.
to first:
no... lazy programmer will earn always much more for 2-3 hours of working than 10 hours working simple man in the kitchen maybe....
to second:
yes, communism can not work on democracy. Skilled people, talented people want always more for their talent/skills and dont care about that simple poor people. There is just question if this is good, but I liked it more too :-)
no... lazy programmer will earn always much more for 2-3 hours of working than 10 hours working simple man in the kitchen maybe....
to second:
yes, communism can not work on democracy. Skilled people, talented people want always more for their talent/skills and dont care about that simple poor people. There is just question if this is good, but I liked it more too :-)
no... lazy programmer will earn always much more for 2-3 hours of working than 10 hours working simple man in the kitchen maybe....
Both (working and intelligence) are being paid. When 2 people with the same intelligence work, but the first works 4 hours a day and the second works 8 hours a day, the second will earn more for his work (if the work is exactly the same).
yes, communism can not work on democracy. Skilled people, talented people want always more for their talent/skills and dont care about that simple poor people. There is just question if this is good, but I liked it more too :-)
It's bullshit to say skilled and talented people don't care for the simple people. At least where I live.
Both (working and intelligence) are being paid. When 2 people with the same intelligence work, but the first works 4 hours a day and the second works 8 hours a day, the second will earn more for his work (if the work is exactly the same).
yes, communism can not work on democracy. Skilled people, talented people want always more for their talent/skills and dont care about that simple poor people. There is just question if this is good, but I liked it more too :-)
It's bullshit to say skilled and talented people don't care for the simple people. At least where I live.
It's bullshit to say skilled and talented people don't care for the simple people. At least where I live.
Yeah, we care about Rubinho.
Yeah, we care about Rubinho.
well..
1-You did not live in communism, you lived in a regime that called itself communistic
2-where no private propetry exist, what sense make to talk about tax?
the use of words are interesting,
I think you can understand what I say:
if you talk about theories you must be tihtgly on theory,
if you make examples, you must follow them carefully..
Too many times I see people deciding what to say and them build up logical construction and find examples to demonstrate it...
but sometimes you'll find that this is simply Begging_the_question
1-You did not live in communism, you lived in a regime that called itself communistic
2-where no private propetry exist, what sense make to talk about tax?
the use of words are interesting,
I think you can understand what I say:
if you talk about theories you must be tihtgly on theory,
if you make examples, you must follow them carefully..
Too many times I see people deciding what to say and them build up logical construction and find examples to demonstrate it...
but sometimes you'll find that this is simply Begging_the_question
Btw, I always exclude communism because communism isn't compatible with real democracy. History has shown that to us.
History does not show us anything about true communism (as in: the most original and pure form.), as it was never used or implemented.
What people call communism today are all forms that are based on forms of the ideology that have a "leading" elite part of society that will lead society into real communism. I agree that all of these examples in history have shown that this "leading" elite in reality does not want to give up their powers and wealth.
Communism in it's purest form does not rule out Democracy per se, allthough on an individual level it can easily conflict with a person's right to self detemination.
In a broader definition of Democracy this right is extended to all parts of life, and in such it does conflict with Communism.
(editado)
History does not show us anything about true communism (as in: the most original and pure form.), as it was never used or implemented.
What people call communism today are all forms that are based on forms of the ideology that have a "leading" elite part of society that will lead society into real communism. I agree that all of these examples in history have shown that this "leading" elite in reality does not want to give up their powers and wealth.
Communism in it's purest form does not rule out Democracy per se, allthough on an individual level it can easily conflict with a person's right to self detemination.
In a broader definition of Democracy this right is extended to all parts of life, and in such it does conflict with Communism.
(editado)
When 2 people with the same intelligence work, but the first works 4 hours a day and the second works 8 hours a day, the second will earn more for his work (if the work is exactly the same).
no, not same people and not same job. I am talking about poor job and well paid job and about man with high IQ and simple man. Their salary will be too different and it has nothing with hardworking, just one of them was better born.
It's bullshit to say skilled and talented people don't care for the simple people. At least where I live.
I dont think, skilled people with high salary hate taxes ... bad paid job usually pay very small taxes so they dont care. Also well paid people hate state insurance and social benefits for poor and so.
no, not same people and not same job. I am talking about poor job and well paid job and about man with high IQ and simple man. Their salary will be too different and it has nothing with hardworking, just one of them was better born.
It's bullshit to say skilled and talented people don't care for the simple people. At least where I live.
I dont think, skilled people with high salary hate taxes ... bad paid job usually pay very small taxes so they dont care. Also well paid people hate state insurance and social benefits for poor and so.
once more again:
2-where no private propetry exist, what sense make to talk about tax?
tax for just as example, in communism system give you salary, so tax is not so important but it is always about one same thing, what can state take you, or what he will give you instead of what you deserve.
I could say (you will better understand this as "taxed") that skilled programmer will get just 10% better salary than simple man tiding in kitchen. So there is not motivation.
and I also said big negative of communism which is that it can not work on democracy principles so this system can be easily abused in negative way.
2-where no private propetry exist, what sense make to talk about tax?
tax for just as example, in communism system give you salary, so tax is not so important but it is always about one same thing, what can state take you, or what he will give you instead of what you deserve.
I could say (you will better understand this as "taxed") that skilled programmer will get just 10% better salary than simple man tiding in kitchen. So there is not motivation.
and I also said big negative of communism which is that it can not work on democracy principles so this system can be easily abused in negative way.
bullshit ? well yeah capitalism is about working together to stab someone else in the back. the whole system is wrong and democracy thats just an illusion name one country where it exist and im not talking about direct democracy (which really wasn't that democratic) country where the principles are put in practice :)
Also well paid people hate state insurance and social benefits for poor and so.
most of them does, it's true..
but usually they do not understand what mean for a society to not doing anything for poors in terms of violence, medical problems, democracy failure, economical stability and so on..
most of them does, it's true..
but usually they do not understand what mean for a society to not doing anything for poors in terms of violence, medical problems, democracy failure, economical stability and so on..
There's nothing wrong with capitalism itself. It has been proven that capitalism works by many examples. It only needs to be regulated properly. When regulation fails, then you have negativities which are then used in trying to prove that capitalism is flawed in its nature.
On the oher hand communism is just plain wrong. It failed miserably wherever it was introduced. It is amazing how such incredible historical empirical evidence is stil ignored by many "idealists". Communism tries to ignore the basic qualitative differences between economic resources, particularly human resources, in a hopeless attempt to produce economic equality at the expense of free market principles which are by far the most efficient in allocation of economic resources when regulated properly.
So, everyone should just stop finally discussing whether capitalism is right or wrong and rather focus on finding, installing and maintaining regulatory mechanisms that will make it work. All other available options lead to an even worse outcome than unregulated capitalism.
Anyway, there is no such economic system that guarantees wellbeing. Each and every one eventually passes or fails on human factor. It all comes down to the collective mindset of people within it. If you have incompetent and corrupted people, they will make the most perfect idea fail. On the other hand, competent people with generally good intentions will evolve any system into a direction towards well being or, as we call it, properly regulated capitalism.
(editado)
On the oher hand communism is just plain wrong. It failed miserably wherever it was introduced. It is amazing how such incredible historical empirical evidence is stil ignored by many "idealists". Communism tries to ignore the basic qualitative differences between economic resources, particularly human resources, in a hopeless attempt to produce economic equality at the expense of free market principles which are by far the most efficient in allocation of economic resources when regulated properly.
So, everyone should just stop finally discussing whether capitalism is right or wrong and rather focus on finding, installing and maintaining regulatory mechanisms that will make it work. All other available options lead to an even worse outcome than unregulated capitalism.
Anyway, there is no such economic system that guarantees wellbeing. Each and every one eventually passes or fails on human factor. It all comes down to the collective mindset of people within it. If you have incompetent and corrupted people, they will make the most perfect idea fail. On the other hand, competent people with generally good intentions will evolve any system into a direction towards well being or, as we call it, properly regulated capitalism.
(editado)