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Asunto: »Political & economic ideologies (communism, capitalism et
nowhere ever on this planet has anyone with any economical sese ever stteduch bullshit.
Actually most people with economical and historical sense agree that the way how communism evolved, by deviating from the original theory and creating a small elite that would lead and rule society untill true communism can be implemented, is doomed to fail everytime. It will fail politically and economically. There is no doubt from my side that this is the case (i.e. it will fail everytime).
useless when people ignore all the rest of the world and history in their opinion, dangerous actually!
Very true. See above
This is even more dangerous if people do not understand why, how and when ideologies where formed and how they evolved.
The communism you are probably referring to are the forms we know today (and they are all versions of the theories of "small elite" leading society untill society is ready for true communism). That is not the original form of the communist theory that I'm referring to. Whether or not that theory is realistic is a different discussion.
Funny though, that you would call some one's thoughts on history showning that forcing communism on a society never works, profoundly stupid. I guess hell did freeze over. ;)
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Actually most people with economical and historical sense agree that the way how communism evolved, by deviating from the original theory and creating a small elite that would lead and rule society untill true communism can be implemented, is doomed to fail everytime. It will fail politically and economically. There is no doubt from my side that this is the case (i.e. it will fail everytime).
useless when people ignore all the rest of the world and history in their opinion, dangerous actually!
Very true. See above
This is even more dangerous if people do not understand why, how and when ideologies where formed and how they evolved.
The communism you are probably referring to are the forms we know today (and they are all versions of the theories of "small elite" leading society untill society is ready for true communism). That is not the original form of the communist theory that I'm referring to. Whether or not that theory is realistic is a different discussion.
Funny though, that you would call some one's thoughts on history showning that forcing communism on a society never works, profoundly stupid. I guess hell did freeze over. ;)
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Zwelgjes "thought" are realy ridiculous ad profoundly stupid. nowhere ever on this planet has anyone with any economical sese ever stteduch bullshit. still people like Zwelgje will boost about it and say "it is just my opinion"...
Learn to have some respect. Zwelgje's thoughts are not ridiculous. He even says that there are certain conditions to have real communism, but those conditions are not met. So it's not ridiculous or stupid, it's true. You just know that Zwelgje is not a person with a 'right' opinion (not right or wrong, but right and left here :p) and therefore he must be stupid in your opinion. That is just sad. With 'that' I mean your opinion that non-right is stupid.
useless when people ignore all the rest of the world and history in their opinion, dangerous actually!
Agree! However, it surprises me that it is you who's making this remark. It's like a boomerang.
Learn to have some respect. Zwelgje's thoughts are not ridiculous. He even says that there are certain conditions to have real communism, but those conditions are not met. So it's not ridiculous or stupid, it's true. You just know that Zwelgje is not a person with a 'right' opinion (not right or wrong, but right and left here :p) and therefore he must be stupid in your opinion. That is just sad. With 'that' I mean your opinion that non-right is stupid.
useless when people ignore all the rest of the world and history in their opinion, dangerous actually!
Agree! However, it surprises me that it is you who's making this remark. It's like a boomerang.
come on ..every child can see the mistakes made bij Zwelgje.....calling " all forms that ever existed of communism a failure, not because it was communism in the first place, but by bad implementation"
That is the biggest outcry of stupidity to men.
that somehwere, in the mind of Zelgje at least, exists a clear form of communism that actually works and defeats capitalism in every way....one that does inspire people to work, oh wait, not wor, tha tis slavery, that is a wrong perseption, together, oh wait together, what for, to form groups, of wait.
That is what I mean...it is profoundly not true non existing and made up fairtale bittybatty talk!
That is the biggest outcry of stupidity to men.
that somehwere, in the mind of Zelgje at least, exists a clear form of communism that actually works and defeats capitalism in every way....one that does inspire people to work, oh wait, not wor, tha tis slavery, that is a wrong perseption, together, oh wait together, what for, to form groups, of wait.
That is what I mean...it is profoundly not true non existing and made up fairtale bittybatty talk!
Well communism is like religion, its matter of belief.
its impossible to discuss something with ignorant people
Well communism is like religion, its matter of belief.
Yes, actually that is true. That is why all communist systems tried to extinguish all religion from society claiming that religion is the opium of the masses. The truth was in fact that there is no place for more than one religion in a society where the dominant ideology/religion (communistic athesim) is an extremist one.
Yes, actually that is true. That is why all communist systems tried to extinguish all religion from society claiming that religion is the opium of the masses. The truth was in fact that there is no place for more than one religion in a society where the dominant ideology/religion (communistic athesim) is an extremist one.
The truth was in fact that there is no place for more than one religion in a society where the dominant ideology/religion (communistic athesim) is an extremist one.
You can leave that '(communistic athesim)' out as extremists will always try to block of forbid an ideology/religion other then their own. Christian extremists do, Muslim extremists do, Zionists do, Capitalist extremists do (yes also, in the US being a communist meant you were/are the enemy), Hindu extremists do etc etc ... Extremism is intolerant.
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You can leave that '(communistic athesim)' out as extremists will always try to block of forbid an ideology/religion other then their own. Christian extremists do, Muslim extremists do, Zionists do, Capitalist extremists do (yes also, in the US being a communist meant you were/are the enemy), Hindu extremists do etc etc ... Extremism is intolerant.
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I cannot leave it out as I was making a point about communism and in each and every case where communism existed as dominant within a society, it was always extremist in the sense that it did not allow neither democracy nor religious freedoms. We could only argue about the different extent of this intolerance.
Btw, although the communist "witch hunts" in the USA are another example of extremism, it is perfectly understandable why being a communist back then in the US meant you were an enemy. At that time a danger existed for every society to turn to communism. You had a couple of billions of people then living in communism that could easily argue that they're better off than capitalism and heading towards general wellbeing, i.e. "the bright future" as the commies use to call it. Now it's just too easy to judge that when it is now prefectly clear that "the bright future" is actually an extremely painful transition towards democratic capitalism and when communism is finally revealed as a "dead-end street" in every sense.
Also, when naming examples of extremism, you forgot about atheist extremism like that of Richard Dawkins.
Btw, although the communist "witch hunts" in the USA are another example of extremism, it is perfectly understandable why being a communist back then in the US meant you were an enemy. At that time a danger existed for every society to turn to communism. You had a couple of billions of people then living in communism that could easily argue that they're better off than capitalism and heading towards general wellbeing, i.e. "the bright future" as the commies use to call it. Now it's just too easy to judge that when it is now prefectly clear that "the bright future" is actually an extremely painful transition towards democratic capitalism and when communism is finally revealed as a "dead-end street" in every sense.
Also, when naming examples of extremism, you forgot about atheist extremism like that of Richard Dawkins.
I would say... communism could be very good and nice system, maybe the best one, if it was real to work :-)
That reminds me of a sentence that wifes of alcoholics usually say to comfort themselves: "And he's such a nice guy if he doesn't drink." :P
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when communism is finally revealed as a "dead-end street" in every sense.
in every sense ... I always have to think about China if I read comments like this. Not that I think China is a nice place to live (I can't really know, I never been there), but to show the 'every' is also just partly true.
Btw, although the ... use to call it.
Yes, in that time it made sense, but European socialism as we know it is still a dirty word and a way of thinking that is considered to be wrong and not excepted. Obama can't even get little change done as we all know by now.
Also, when naming examples of extremism, you forgot about atheist extremism like that of Richard Dawkins.
lol :P yeh right, a real extremist :P .... How dare he to say maths belongs in schools and religion belongs in churches. How dare he to say the creationist arguments are just plain lies. How dare he to say science is under threat when religion sets the limits. How dare he to say violence and murder are often committed in the name of religion, etc etc. In short: how dare he to question religion!
Yes he is driven and does that with passion, but he absolutely not an extremist. He doesn't say religion should be banned (or at least I never have heard him say that), only that he is against it. He shows the downsides of religion and to often the lack of reason and common sense. But I do understand you really don't like him because of that and why you want to put him down as an extremist.
But I wonder how many documentaries you have really seen of him and how open you are to other info.
in every sense ... I always have to think about China if I read comments like this. Not that I think China is a nice place to live (I can't really know, I never been there), but to show the 'every' is also just partly true.
Btw, although the ... use to call it.
Yes, in that time it made sense, but European socialism as we know it is still a dirty word and a way of thinking that is considered to be wrong and not excepted. Obama can't even get little change done as we all know by now.
Also, when naming examples of extremism, you forgot about atheist extremism like that of Richard Dawkins.
lol :P yeh right, a real extremist :P .... How dare he to say maths belongs in schools and religion belongs in churches. How dare he to say the creationist arguments are just plain lies. How dare he to say science is under threat when religion sets the limits. How dare he to say violence and murder are often committed in the name of religion, etc etc. In short: how dare he to question religion!
Yes he is driven and does that with passion, but he absolutely not an extremist. He doesn't say religion should be banned (or at least I never have heard him say that), only that he is against it. He shows the downsides of religion and to often the lack of reason and common sense. But I do understand you really don't like him because of that and why you want to put him down as an extremist.
But I wonder how many documentaries you have really seen of him and how open you are to other info.
how come that someone states "communism is matter of belief" and than another cries out "communism is religion"....and some others go on about it, as if communism suddenly is religion!
no wonder that you guys didn't get my criticism of Zwelgjes remarks...however he, Zwelgje himself, made a clearer second remark about what he meant.
Listen boys and girls, communism is not religionhing to do with belief, ideas or implementation.
communism is a failing system, in wich nobody is free,nobody likes to work or express himself, and where always a dominant group will exploit others.
Maybe, I say,maybe one can say the same for Capitalism, but in Capitalism there is at least prove of succescfull effects on welfare ,wellness,freedom, democracy, peace and lots of others.
If we keep it less pfilosophica, both are economic political systems where Capitalism is the good one, and communism the bad one.
no wonder that you guys didn't get my criticism of Zwelgjes remarks...however he, Zwelgje himself, made a clearer second remark about what he meant.
Listen boys and girls, communism is not religionhing to do with belief, ideas or implementation.
communism is a failing system, in wich nobody is free,nobody likes to work or express himself, and where always a dominant group will exploit others.
Maybe, I say,maybe one can say the same for Capitalism, but in Capitalism there is at least prove of succescfull effects on welfare ,wellness,freedom, democracy, peace and lots of others.
If we keep it less pfilosophica, both are economic political systems where Capitalism is the good one, and communism the bad one.
How do you know what is freedom for everyvody on earth ?
And please gimme your definition of freedom please ? Thx
And please gimme your definition of freedom please ? Thx
That is the biggest outcry of stupidity to men.
that somehwere, in the mind of Zelgje at least, exists a clear form of communism that actually works and defeats capitalism in every way [cut]
That is what I mean...it is profoundly not true non existing and made up fairtale bittybatty talk!
So, tell me where exactly where I wrote that "clear communism" actually works and defeats capitalism in every way?
Honestly mitch, I think you made that fairytale up in your own mind. ;)
that somehwere, in the mind of Zelgje at least, exists a clear form of communism that actually works and defeats capitalism in every way [cut]
That is what I mean...it is profoundly not true non existing and made up fairtale bittybatty talk!
So, tell me where exactly where I wrote that "clear communism" actually works and defeats capitalism in every way?
Honestly mitch, I think you made that fairytale up in your own mind. ;)