Asunto: »Political & economic ideologies (communism, capitalism et

There can exist a god, I never denied that. I don't accept (perception) the existence of something when it isn't proven (reality). And see what I wrote: it must be observable for normal human beings (blind people are not normal, they have a handicap). The god of the Christians is not observable. Neither is Allah. Neither are the other gods.

something like that.

Then you have a different definition of 'real' than me. The imaginations are real, the things of the imaginations themselves aren't.

it is certain that God can exist in some paralel universe in diffferent dimension etc

but all religion is based on belief that God interfer with our reality what is simply internally contradictory

btw religion is internally contradictory in many other aspects too. and it doesn't surprise me at all because it's just a cultural phenomenon born in human minds and is fragile for their imperfections...

yes, I agree. but for people who belief it's very real. that's why i wrote that I should use real in quotation marks

What is a 'normal' human being?

Isn't that just perception? ;)

It seems real for believers, yes. Just like Santa seems real to kids. However, as long as something is not proven, it is not 'really' real.

Now thát is knitpicking ;-) And irrelevant.

Blindness is a 'shortage'. An overwhelming majority of the people can see. People who are in the overwhelming majority in all 'categories' (can one see, can one hear, can one speak, is one not crazy, ...) is normal.

friday and spam of people who sit at home at friday :-DDD Shame on you all !
(I have children, I have exeption)

However, as long as something is not proven, it is not 'really' real.

it's wrong. there is many things taht we can't proove but can predict and are understandable for us. for example new unknown chemical elements etc.

but there is no place for real God in our reality, nowhere else than in believers minds...

Whether blindness is a shortage is relative. On a planet where no being posseses sight it wouldn't be a shortage. Imagine we all have echolocation as bats instead of sight. It would even be impossible to explain within such a civilisation what sight really is.

Really, try to imagine Earth where all beings have echolocation instead of sight. If one human would mutate and get sight, he would not be able to explain his "new reality" to other people even though that reality always existed and it was just that nobody possessed the sense to perceive it as such.

What we perceive as our reality is so much defined by our available senses that for us it is even impossible to really imagine such a hypothetical planet. Stil, it is not even necessary to really imagine it in order to understand that it only shows that true reality can be much more complex than we are able to perceive with our limited collection of senses. So all that we really perceive and know about the universe is in any case just a fraction of what is available.

Whether blindness is a shortage is relative. On a planet where no being posseses sight it wouldn't be a shortage. Imagine we all have echolocation as bats instead of sight. It would even be impossible to explain within such a civilisation what sight really is.

Really, try to imagine Earth where all beings have echolocation instead of sight. If one human would mutate and get sight, he would not be able to explain his "new reality" to other people even though that reality always existed and it was just that nobody possessed the sense to perceive it as such.

Once again, if my cat was a dog, it would bark.

It is too obvious that blindness is a shortage to be an interesting discussion.

What we perceive as our reality is so much defined by our available senses that for us it is even impossible to really imagine such a hypothetical planet. Stil, it is not even necessary to really imagine it in order to understand that it only shows that true reality can be much more complex than we are able to perceive with our limited collection of senses. So all that we really perceive and know about the universe is in any case just a fraction of what is available.

There is probably a lot of reality that we can't perceive. Yet. However, I'm not the one making up stories to explain the unexplainable. You are. I can't explain how our universe started. You can't either. But you need something that might explain it. And you don't care if it is fantasy or not, as long as it explains it.

It would even be impossible to explain within such a civilisation what sight really is.

not at all aswell as you are explained how echolocation works. thank to science we understand many many things that are far away outside capability of our senses and still there is no place for God in this science made order. it's more than enough to assumpt what i was stated before

Stil, it is not even necessary to really imagine it in order to understand that it only shows that true reality can be much more complex than we are able to perceive with our limited collection of senses.

but still that's are only your suppositions, beliefs... and fact that all surounding You people thinks like You doesn't change anything... :)

To me it seems as if you lack the imagination to be able to follow my hypothetical analogy intended to imagine that our collection of senses is limited even though we are not able to know exactly how (same as "blind civilisation" doesn't). But this is quite normal though. It is much easier to have knowledge than imagination which is actually, as Einstein would say, "more important than knowledge".

"Making up stories" is something people do to hide the truth. My "blind planet" was a hypothetical analogy or an allegory and it seems that I overrated your capabilities. It is really funny that your reply to that was "it is obvious that blindness is a shortage". Of course it is but this is defined more by the context (all humans having sight) than the blindness itself. Bats are blind and they don't care.

Well, it seems that you believe less in the randomness of evolution than even I do. So, ok, I am glad you believe that we could never have evolved echolocation instead of sight because, obviously, God wanted us to have sight. :)

thank to science we understand many many things that are far away outside capability of our senses...
... and quantum mechanics helped us to understand that everything we understood was just a misunderstanding.
there is no place for God in this science made order.
Well, Einstein's best argument against Danish School's quantum theory was: "God doesn't play dices".
I'm glad there is still place for dices...

Nevermind. I just hope the rest sees that our Croation genius always makes claims of me having said something without me having said it, like the fact that I would have said that human race wouldn't have evolved echolocation if sight was lacking.
(editado)

there was times when religion was established and humanity didin't even dreamed about quantum mechanics yet...