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Asunto: »Political & economic ideologies (communism, capitalism et
freedom - politics - democracy
capitalism - economy
Simple as that.
If we would be talking about the theory, then we would need also talking about thery of communism which is also vere missinterpreted in western countries. And also here in this thread.
capitalism - economy
Simple as that.
If we would be talking about the theory, then we would need also talking about thery of communism which is also vere missinterpreted in western countries. And also here in this thread.
Finaly someone who understands it pretty right. Thank you. Now i know i am not alone :-). Thank you very much.
I agree with you too..
the point I think that miss is the direction you all are looking.
You look at past, as there's nothing new that we can do, we can only mix those old ideas to find something to carry on..
This is not true, and this is leading occidental countries to the end of their leadeship in the world.
When the roman empire started to crash it started with his incapacity to change his ways in front of history needs. his organization, resurces distribution, strenght to fight and defend all them depended on the incapacity to undestand what to do from NOW ON, not in the past.
We carry a pack of the history in our school years, but it must teach how story goes to try to write a new page originally our, not only thinking we must copy forever a losing lesson!
the point I think that miss is the direction you all are looking.
You look at past, as there's nothing new that we can do, we can only mix those old ideas to find something to carry on..
This is not true, and this is leading occidental countries to the end of their leadeship in the world.
When the roman empire started to crash it started with his incapacity to change his ways in front of history needs. his organization, resurces distribution, strenght to fight and defend all them depended on the incapacity to undestand what to do from NOW ON, not in the past.
We carry a pack of the history in our school years, but it must teach how story goes to try to write a new page originally our, not only thinking we must copy forever a losing lesson!
Me: People cannot do what they want. They must fit the system, or they are 'removed'.
You: I wish that would be true in capitalism. I would glorify capitalism if it would be so. But... its not. This is how it worked in totalitiarism. But it was missused (problem of people not the system).
:o So basically, you want to force the people to fit the system? What do you do with people who don't want to fit the system?
Did you live in communism? I doubt so. I did.
Luckily, I didn't. I was born in '90. However, does this matter? I doubt so.
You: I wish that would be true in capitalism. I would glorify capitalism if it would be so. But... its not. This is how it worked in totalitiarism. But it was missused (problem of people not the system).
:o So basically, you want to force the people to fit the system? What do you do with people who don't want to fit the system?
Did you live in communism? I doubt so. I did.
Luckily, I didn't. I was born in '90. However, does this matter? I doubt so.
Capitalism killed morality.
Oh yes, the morality in Eastern Europe in the seventies and eighties was way better.
And thats a kind of 100% true.
0% will be closer.
Oh yes, the morality in Eastern Europe in the seventies and eighties was way better.
And thats a kind of 100% true.
0% will be closer.
But you have to defend one system. You cannot say: communism is bad, capitalism is bad, ... What system do you propose? (And 'we should create a new system' is not really specific, is it?)
Freedom is firstly related to freedom of space (freedom of speech came later)... But communism is related to no private property thus freedom of space is for everyone... Then, with this utopia, freedom has a real meaning more accssible to every people than with the system used since the beginning of history of civilization, freedom of space is related to power, money.
So in communism, you cannot forbid someone to enter your house or a room? Thát would be absolute freedom, but that is 1. utopia and 2. not desired: I want to have my own place.
And after freedom of space, you have freedom of speech. And that is way better under capitalist rule than under communist rule, you cannot deny that (you can, but you can't make it hard). I prefer 99% freedom of space and 90% freedom of speech over 100% freedom of speech and 30% freedom of speech (don't point at the numbers, they are just an example).
So in communism, you cannot forbid someone to enter your house or a room? Thát would be absolute freedom, but that is 1. utopia and 2. not desired: I want to have my own place.
And after freedom of space, you have freedom of speech. And that is way better under capitalist rule than under communist rule, you cannot deny that (you can, but you can't make it hard). I prefer 99% freedom of space and 90% freedom of speech over 100% freedom of speech and 30% freedom of speech (don't point at the numbers, they are just an example).
So in communism, you cannot forbid someone to enter your house or a room? Thát would be absolute freedom, but that is 1. utopia and 2. not desired: I want to have my own place.
;-)
That's just what i said it is uotpia and can't be real (i told about that on the prvious topic we all talked about) as human are all controlled by their desires which is the best use of capitalism... especially best desires (7 sins of christians) repressed first then transformed and abused by consumerism.
;-)
That's just what i said it is uotpia and can't be real (i told about that on the prvious topic we all talked about) as human are all controlled by their desires which is the best use of capitalism... especially best desires (7 sins of christians) repressed first then transformed and abused by consumerism.
Mitch, I like capitalism and democracy but just because it is better than comunism. I vote right political parties :). But I know that this system has a lot negatives and that is making a lot of people unhappy. Communism is a nice idea, which I like too but I know that communism is just dream and can make much more pain than other systems. If communism is controlled by fair,honesty people it can be interesting system which can never compete with economy and productivity of capitalism but which can win on side of humanity and happiness.
Well - let´s define this :
Economically capitalism is about free market (D and S curve etc.).
- Free market + egocentric people = huge troubles for unlucky ones.
Politically it is all about liberty. Anarcho-capitalism is political philosophy saying what I outlined in my first post here.
- So I can be egocentric or not but (when I am anarcho-capitalist) I accept that I have no right to force another ones to be or not to be egocentric.
I really don´t understand what is your positive political idea. Do you think that force can be used to make people doing "good" things and ban them to do "bad " things? Who should have that right to decide what is "good" or "bad"?
These questions are - in my view - the most important ones in political philosophy and it is crucial to answer them.. It is crucial to define what legalistic arrangments (universal laws) I agree with and what is subject of everyone´s conscience.
(editado)
Economically capitalism is about free market (D and S curve etc.).
- Free market + egocentric people = huge troubles for unlucky ones.
Politically it is all about liberty. Anarcho-capitalism is political philosophy saying what I outlined in my first post here.
- So I can be egocentric or not but (when I am anarcho-capitalist) I accept that I have no right to force another ones to be or not to be egocentric.
I really don´t understand what is your positive political idea. Do you think that force can be used to make people doing "good" things and ban them to do "bad " things? Who should have that right to decide what is "good" or "bad"?
These questions are - in my view - the most important ones in political philosophy and it is crucial to answer them.. It is crucial to define what legalistic arrangments (universal laws) I agree with and what is subject of everyone´s conscience.
(editado)
Capitalism is an economical system. Do not mix it with political system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
My positive political idea is emphatism, but i undestand that this is an utopia.
My positive political idea is emphatism, but i undestand that this is an utopia.
BZ you have to think out new better system or choose one from existing. I dont like negatives of capitalism but If I turn back my view on what we have in communism I am choosing capitalism :).
And you?
And you?
My positive political idea is emphatism, but i undestand that this is an utopia.
Well, you can live in your utopia, or you can try bringing your ideas into practice.
Well, you can live in your utopia, or you can try bringing your ideas into practice.
Morality died with capitalism.
What i want is that all people would act with emphaty :-). Nothing else would be needed.
But with this system. Yes i want to force people to fit the system. And you think that it is not already happening? Yes it is. Everyone who steals something is out of the system, goes to jail. The same for killing. And yes this is forcing everyone to fit the system and thats really good. Is it freedom? Not really. But its good. And yes i was talking about capitalism. I can imagine you would say that i am not right. But think before you write something like that.
Luckily, I didn't. I was born in '90. However, does this matter? I doubt so.
It does matter. You cant compare. You just compare the informations you got from media. And the media is corrupted.
My mom was an administrative accountant and my father was an artist. You should know that artist were disliked in totalitiarism. But you know what? We werent poor. We had everything we wanted. My parents got an loan for living (for a flat), and they didnt have to repay it. Family life was very well supported then. Everyone had to work. Even the gipsies. What they do now? Nothing. Oh right you are from Belgium, so go look in Bruseles, there are our gipsies now :-)))).
What i want is that all people would act with emphaty :-). Nothing else would be needed.
But with this system. Yes i want to force people to fit the system. And you think that it is not already happening? Yes it is. Everyone who steals something is out of the system, goes to jail. The same for killing. And yes this is forcing everyone to fit the system and thats really good. Is it freedom? Not really. But its good. And yes i was talking about capitalism. I can imagine you would say that i am not right. But think before you write something like that.
Luckily, I didn't. I was born in '90. However, does this matter? I doubt so.
It does matter. You cant compare. You just compare the informations you got from media. And the media is corrupted.
My mom was an administrative accountant and my father was an artist. You should know that artist were disliked in totalitiarism. But you know what? We werent poor. We had everything we wanted. My parents got an loan for living (for a flat), and they didnt have to repay it. Family life was very well supported then. Everyone had to work. Even the gipsies. What they do now? Nothing. Oh right you are from Belgium, so go look in Bruseles, there are our gipsies now :-)))).