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Asunto: »Political & economic ideologies (communism, capitalism et
18y olds arent educated that good to vote for what they really want. And there are a lot of older people who arent that much educated too. Together they are a majority. And this majority is very likely to be manipulated. Thats why its not that good.
That is indeed the big disadvantage of democracy. However, this is not always the case (I voted for the first time when I was 19 and I can honestly say I was aware what the political topics and choices were and how the parties were oriented in those themes), but most of the voters are indeed idiots. And yes, the majority is being manipulated, both the 'right' (not left/right here) and 'wrong' way. However, I hate how in my country (and I think in most western 'democracies') the (public) media & politics keep the people stupid. They have the 'task' to improve the knowledge of the people about politics.
Just to let you know about the education and manipulation. Please donbt take it offensive. But your statements about communism were pretty false therefore manipulated. Thats why i think, that only highly educated people should decide for everyone. But i understand, that as i know human nature, they would also just vote for themselves.
Well, what I've read about communism (both in my free time as about my studies [I study economics, that might explain why I am pro-liberalism, pro-capitalism and anti-communism]) shows me obviously it is a bad system that can never work for the people.
That is indeed the big disadvantage of democracy. However, this is not always the case (I voted for the first time when I was 19 and I can honestly say I was aware what the political topics and choices were and how the parties were oriented in those themes), but most of the voters are indeed idiots. And yes, the majority is being manipulated, both the 'right' (not left/right here) and 'wrong' way. However, I hate how in my country (and I think in most western 'democracies') the (public) media & politics keep the people stupid. They have the 'task' to improve the knowledge of the people about politics.
Just to let you know about the education and manipulation. Please donbt take it offensive. But your statements about communism were pretty false therefore manipulated. Thats why i think, that only highly educated people should decide for everyone. But i understand, that as i know human nature, they would also just vote for themselves.
Well, what I've read about communism (both in my free time as about my studies [I study economics, that might explain why I am pro-liberalism, pro-capitalism and anti-communism]) shows me obviously it is a bad system that can never work for the people.
the obvious point is that you have to separate REAL democracies (what we have), with theorical democracy (that has no flaws at all). exactly as you do for economic systems..
Unless you live in Switzerland, you are being mislead.
Unless you live in Switzerland, you are being mislead.
@Rubinho
I want the people to decide what system of society organization should be used,
you want to make a system, and force the people to follow that system.
Look, people are sheep. You can promise them big social benefits, work and low taxes and in democracy you will win election (prove ? maybe Greece). This system is really not good. Or like in your country, you can not elect government for more than one year.
Force system to people is good, problem is what kind of system it will be :-D.
I want the people to decide what system of society organization should be used,
you want to make a system, and force the people to follow that system.
Look, people are sheep. You can promise them big social benefits, work and low taxes and in democracy you will win election (prove ? maybe Greece). This system is really not good. Or like in your country, you can not elect government for more than one year.
Force system to people is good, problem is what kind of system it will be :-D.
I am happy we don't have a government, 'cause the talks about government forming are based on very bad ideas. I hope for new elections, in which the N-VA (non-traditional [traditionals = liberals, socialists, christian democrats], Flemish nationalism, economic liberalism and social conservatism) might even grow further (last time, they grew from 6 to 27 seats, biggest party of Flanders and Belgium).
Look, people are sheep. You can promise them big social benefits, work and low taxes and in democracy you will win election
Depends. In Flanders, 'left' only obtains about 20% of the seats. But it is a problem, that's for sure. The parties that say there will be big cuts and that everyone will feel it in their pockets won the elections.
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Look, people are sheep. You can promise them big social benefits, work and low taxes and in democracy you will win election
Depends. In Flanders, 'left' only obtains about 20% of the seats. But it is a problem, that's for sure. The parties that say there will be big cuts and that everyone will feel it in their pockets won the elections.
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I think you and Rubihno have to study a lot of political philosofy and constitutional systems before talking about this things, you seem to talk of things you know, but you don't!
The problem of universal suffrage or of democratic mecanism is a growing debate long at least 2 centuries of the best teoric and politc minds in the whole world, you really need al least to read sometingh about, imho.
The problem of universal suffrage: an incomplete introduction
PS: Switzerland is a democracy as the others, now they has a growing party that want to give different rights in front of nationality of people.. demagogy work everywhere in same ways!
The problem of universal suffrage or of democratic mecanism is a growing debate long at least 2 centuries of the best teoric and politc minds in the whole world, you really need al least to read sometingh about, imho.
The problem of universal suffrage: an incomplete introduction
PS: Switzerland is a democracy as the others, now they has a growing party that want to give different rights in front of nationality of people.. demagogy work everywhere in same ways!
But in Switzerland, the people can decide about constitution changes and about laws. In Belgium, even (binding and non-binding) plebiscites are forbidden (on national level)! (because they show the gap that exists between Flanders in the north and Wallonia in the south)
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I admit I do not know anything about Belgium.
In Italy constitution can be changhed (imho too simply).
To decide about laws..
is really funny when real democracy shows his limits ad it's differences with democratic theories
Let's do an example!
can you vote to stop importing goods from china?
Can you do it in Belgium? In Italy? In USA or Russia? Or Switzerland?
No you can't... everywhere you are. You can't find any serius political movement that fight for this (except funny local pride nationalistic demagogists that want only your vote to do nothing)
Why?
'cause our democracies is true as a 3 euro coin..
In Italy constitution can be changhed (imho too simply).
To decide about laws..
is really funny when real democracy shows his limits ad it's differences with democratic theories
Let's do an example!
can you vote to stop importing goods from china?
Can you do it in Belgium? In Italy? In USA or Russia? Or Switzerland?
No you can't... everywhere you are. You can't find any serius political movement that fight for this (except funny local pride nationalistic demagogists that want only your vote to do nothing)
Why?
'cause our democracies is true as a 3 euro coin..
maybe... and we can start discussion toward to what new system we should have :-) we should have system which:
- guarantee you some basic level of life, this system is forced for everybody, no democracy, no choice
- give you possibility enter to advance level, this system is voluntary, people who are able pay some payment for basic level can have own business, own market, better healthcare and so..
But his seems like communism and luxury market for "bony" currency which we had already :-D.
Reading this myself, it looks weird :-). But maybe somebody will have better idea :-)
- guarantee you some basic level of life, this system is forced for everybody, no democracy, no choice
- give you possibility enter to advance level, this system is voluntary, people who are able pay some payment for basic level can have own business, own market, better healthcare and so..
But his seems like communism and luxury market for "bony" currency which we had already :-D.
Reading this myself, it looks weird :-). But maybe somebody will have better idea :-)
So you agree with me on democracy. You can understand why "Not really".
Well, what I've read about communism (both in my free time as about my studies [I study economics, that might explain why I am pro-liberalism, pro-capitalism and anti-communism]) shows me obviously it is a bad system that can never work for the people.
Well praxis is everytime better than theory. I lived in totalitiarism. And it was not that bad as the wertern media and education books tells about. Just people screwed it up. And they were told what to do from USSR. They couldnt decide anything about their country... That was pretty bad. We couldnt go abroad. But actually i was in Austria. :-).
Other thing is, than some gourps of people were persecuated, like catolics or people with german nationality.
But again. Actually i have german nationality and we were doing pretty good. It was not that bad as it seemd.
Well, what I've read about communism (both in my free time as about my studies [I study economics, that might explain why I am pro-liberalism, pro-capitalism and anti-communism]) shows me obviously it is a bad system that can never work for the people.
Well praxis is everytime better than theory. I lived in totalitiarism. And it was not that bad as the wertern media and education books tells about. Just people screwed it up. And they were told what to do from USSR. They couldnt decide anything about their country... That was pretty bad. We couldnt go abroad. But actually i was in Austria. :-).
Other thing is, than some gourps of people were persecuated, like catolics or people with german nationality.
But again. Actually i have german nationality and we were doing pretty good. It was not that bad as it seemd.
Just wanted to put this vid
unfortunately its not possible, humans are way to greedy and they will never let their power go ... and yeah, all its needs is handful of greedy bastards and the whole concept of resource based economy wont work ...
unfortunately its not possible, humans are way to greedy and they will never let their power go ... and yeah, all its needs is handful of greedy bastards and the whole concept of resource based economy wont work ...
I admit I do not know anything about Belgium.
In Italy constitution can be changhed (imho too simply).
In Belgium, constitution can be changed if there is a 2/3 majority in the parliament and a normal majority in both language groups (Dutch [88 seats] and French [62 seats]).
To decide about laws..
is really funny when real democracy shows his limits ad it's differences with democratic theories
Let's do an example!
can you vote to stop importing goods from china?
Can you do it in Belgium? In Italy? In USA or Russia? Or Switzerland?
First of all, I'd like to stop trade with all countries that seriously violate human rights (like China). And yes, I think the people should be able to change laws if they want to (for instance, in Switzerland, if the parliament decides something, the people can stop it with a binding referendum).
In Italy constitution can be changhed (imho too simply).
In Belgium, constitution can be changed if there is a 2/3 majority in the parliament and a normal majority in both language groups (Dutch [88 seats] and French [62 seats]).
To decide about laws..
is really funny when real democracy shows his limits ad it's differences with democratic theories
Let's do an example!
can you vote to stop importing goods from china?
Can you do it in Belgium? In Italy? In USA or Russia? Or Switzerland?
First of all, I'd like to stop trade with all countries that seriously violate human rights (like China). And yes, I think the people should be able to change laws if they want to (for instance, in Switzerland, if the parliament decides something, the people can stop it with a binding referendum).
maybe... and we can start discussion toward to what new system we should have :-) we should have system which:
- guarantee you some basic level of life, this system is forced for everybody, no democracy, no choice
- give you possibility enter to advance level, this system is voluntary, people who are able pay some payment for basic level can have own business, own market, better healthcare and so..
But his seems like communism and luxury market for "bony" currency which we had already :-D.
Reading this myself, it looks weird :-). But maybe somebody will have better idea :-)
I reject your first requirement (guaranteed basic level). I want a guaranteed basic level IF one is willing to work for it. If you refuse to work (so not when you are physically or mentally not able to), you shouldn't get a penny.
- guarantee you some basic level of life, this system is forced for everybody, no democracy, no choice
- give you possibility enter to advance level, this system is voluntary, people who are able pay some payment for basic level can have own business, own market, better healthcare and so..
But his seems like communism and luxury market for "bony" currency which we had already :-D.
Reading this myself, it looks weird :-). But maybe somebody will have better idea :-)
I reject your first requirement (guaranteed basic level). I want a guaranteed basic level IF one is willing to work for it. If you refuse to work (so not when you are physically or mentally not able to), you shouldn't get a penny.
So you agree with me on democracy. You can understand why "Not really".
No, I understand your 'not really', but I don't agree. I admit democracy has some serious problems, but that doesn't mean I'm not in favor of democracy.
Well praxis is everytime better than theory. I lived in totalitiarism. And it was not that bad as the wertern media and education books tells about. Just people screwed it up. And they were told what to do from USSR. They couldnt decide anything about their country... That was pretty bad. We couldnt go abroad. But actually i was in Austria.
That is what always happens when a limited number of people have very much power (like in Soviet Union & Eastern Europe that time). And why were you in Austria? You had fled? And I reject communism because in that system, the people are there for the state, while in my view, the state should serve the people.
Other thing is, than some gourps of people were persecuated, like catolics or people with german nationality.
But again. Actually i have german nationality and we were doing pretty good. It was not that bad as it seemd.
So you are an ethnic German living / who lived in Austria, but you have lived in Czechoslovakia under communist rule, and you live in Slovakia now but you play Sokker under the Czech flag?
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No, I understand your 'not really', but I don't agree. I admit democracy has some serious problems, but that doesn't mean I'm not in favor of democracy.
Well praxis is everytime better than theory. I lived in totalitiarism. And it was not that bad as the wertern media and education books tells about. Just people screwed it up. And they were told what to do from USSR. They couldnt decide anything about their country... That was pretty bad. We couldnt go abroad. But actually i was in Austria.
That is what always happens when a limited number of people have very much power (like in Soviet Union & Eastern Europe that time). And why were you in Austria? You had fled? And I reject communism because in that system, the people are there for the state, while in my view, the state should serve the people.
Other thing is, than some gourps of people were persecuated, like catolics or people with german nationality.
But again. Actually i have german nationality and we were doing pretty good. It was not that bad as it seemd.
So you are an ethnic German living / who lived in Austria, but you have lived in Czechoslovakia under communist rule, and you live in Slovakia now but you play Sokker under the Czech flag?
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BZ, that system was not good for talented and very skilled people, also not good for people with own opinion. You just have to forget !
And try remember how low productivity (and also research and so...) there was !
And try remember how low productivity (and also research and so...) there was !
And democracy is a soft form of communism.
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How do you mean, in what way?
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For example, in the level of taxation. On pre 20th century monarchy, taxes did not rise above 5%. Due to the inception of democracy all over Europe, taxes rose continually, until the 30/40/50% now?
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How do you mean, in what way?
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For example, in the level of taxation. On pre 20th century monarchy, taxes did not rise above 5%. Due to the inception of democracy all over Europe, taxes rose continually, until the 30/40/50% now?