Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
¡¡¡Tema cerrado!!!
Asunto: »Political & economic ideologies (communism, capitalism et
benefits?
Yep, that is the answer I expected, very predictable. This is exactly what people do when they support only 1 side almost to the extreme, and this is exactly what I just posted about what you are doing also: post as much of your anti-euro ideas and links that support this idea as you can.
Yep, that is the answer I expected, very predictable. This is exactly what people do when they support only 1 side almost to the extreme, and this is exactly what I just posted about what you are doing also: post as much of your anti-euro ideas and links that support this idea as you can.
I can't understand.
Why do you always discuss about me (or about a cathegory you decide I belong to)
Answer.
Give AN answer IT.
I ask "benefits?"
you think there are some, so ANSWER!
elsewere I'll think it was a trolling against me post? Am I wrong?
Answer..
Why do you always discuss about me (or about a cathegory you decide I belong to)
Answer.
Give AN answer IT.
I ask "benefits?"
you think there are some, so ANSWER!
elsewere I'll think it was a trolling against me post? Am I wrong?
Answer..
more important,
how do YOU explain the rise of the nationalisms in Europe?
how do you explain Le Pen or Farage rise in elections and polls?
I've expressed an elaborated view of it.
Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong,
But what's your answer?
I do propaganda. very interesting..
how do YOU explain the rise of the nationalisms in Europe?
how do you explain Le Pen or Farage rise in elections and polls?
I've expressed an elaborated view of it.
Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong,
But what's your answer?
I do propaganda. very interesting..
Look, you are posting in another topic to keep in mind to not judge without nuances, to not take sides and things like that, but in this topic it is all 'the hell away with nuances' and lets spam this topic with your biased hate opinion against the euro.
I register you don't havenothing to say IT. Still boicot a legit discussion with other people by trolling them.
I have to little time to waste it with you.
Have a good life, if you are able to.
I have to little time to waste it with you.
Have a good life, if you are able to.
Yep, sometimes it isn't fun to get behaviour mirrored ...
(editado)
(editado)
We have 3 standard positions:
1 the labour (moderate left, socialists or how you prefer to call them) side that shows its european loyalty.
2 moderate right party or a very extremist left parties (Tsipras) that is very close to the left or allied to it, that talks about to refrom EU
3 extreme right (libertarian, nationalists, conservative, etc) that are against it.
After a closer look we'll understand that the first and second position are almost the same.
The problem about economics and labour rights is being for or against EURO. Because all the rest come as a consequence. The fiscal politic come as imposed. the labour rules must be reformed. The pension system must be reducted etc..
We see that it put us on a strange situation, in order to defend workers, rights and welfare we should vote some of the "3" parties (in fact they grow a lot, look at Le Pen in France..)
But in order to gain or defend civil rights we should stop them (they are almost racists or nationalists or against social rights or WAR addicted, or Fascist/Nazist ..)
What a simplistic view. I'm in favor of abolishing the current social 'rights' too, but I'm far from being extreme-right. I'm pro open borders, but against the current system of the Euro, which is not beneficial for countries whose economy is not close to the German one. So where do I fit in your 3 positions? Nowhere.
1 the labour (moderate left, socialists or how you prefer to call them) side that shows its european loyalty.
2 moderate right party or a very extremist left parties (Tsipras) that is very close to the left or allied to it, that talks about to refrom EU
3 extreme right (libertarian, nationalists, conservative, etc) that are against it.
After a closer look we'll understand that the first and second position are almost the same.
The problem about economics and labour rights is being for or against EURO. Because all the rest come as a consequence. The fiscal politic come as imposed. the labour rules must be reformed. The pension system must be reducted etc..
We see that it put us on a strange situation, in order to defend workers, rights and welfare we should vote some of the "3" parties (in fact they grow a lot, look at Le Pen in France..)
But in order to gain or defend civil rights we should stop them (they are almost racists or nationalists or against social rights or WAR addicted, or Fascist/Nazist ..)
What a simplistic view. I'm in favor of abolishing the current social 'rights' too, but I'm far from being extreme-right. I'm pro open borders, but against the current system of the Euro, which is not beneficial for countries whose economy is not close to the German one. So where do I fit in your 3 positions? Nowhere.
What a simplistic view. I'm in favor of abolishing the current social 'rights' too, but I'm far from being extreme-right. I'm pro open borders, but against the current system of the Euro, which is not beneficial for countries whose economy is not close to the German one. So where do I fit in your 3 positions? Nowhere.
it was a semplification, useful to show a general trend, to not believe the fact that certin political dynamics are only in "my country".
I'm not talking about the fact people like you (or me) have more complex and variuos idea than this semplification.
I'm offering a semplification of what are the more important parties real position about the Euro problem.
so i'm discussing the offer, not the demand in politics (if you prefer it this way).
there are for sure other political offers that I did not mentioned (left parties against euro or moderate libertarian against euro, I'm sure there are some).
But I think you can understand why I chose to not discuss about them easily.
NB: and yes, it was a semplification (what a surprise..)
it was a semplification, useful to show a general trend, to not believe the fact that certin political dynamics are only in "my country".
I'm not talking about the fact people like you (or me) have more complex and variuos idea than this semplification.
I'm offering a semplification of what are the more important parties real position about the Euro problem.
so i'm discussing the offer, not the demand in politics (if you prefer it this way).
there are for sure other political offers that I did not mentioned (left parties against euro or moderate libertarian against euro, I'm sure there are some).
But I think you can understand why I chose to not discuss about them easily.
NB: and yes, it was a semplification (what a surprise..)
what people of what fraction are you going to vote in election for EU parliament ?
I am not sure .... maybe people who want make a try to change that huge bureaucracy and inefficiency...
I don't vote (we have tree elections on the same day: the Flemish (regional) Parliament, the Belgian Parliament and the European Parliament). As a matter of principle. I don't want to legitimize one of the governments. I don't think it's a good idea to hold elections to determine how much money we are taking away from whom. Besides that, the odds that my vote matters, are very, very low. The MP's are just puppets of their party, and the distinction between executive power and legislative power has almost completely disappeared. Even if I would want to vote, there is no single party that defends Rule of Law based on liberty.
I don't vote, even though voting is compulsory in this country. I don't vote, on principle.
On The Way to The Voting Booth by Frank van Dun, a Flemish law philosopher.
I don't vote, even though voting is compulsory in this country. I don't vote, on principle.
On The Way to The Voting Booth by Frank van Dun, a Flemish law philosopher.
There was a time when I was thinking the same, but imho non-voting is not the answer.
Not voting isn't some kind of "rebel" position, but just a way for the main parties to keep their influence. And/or a sort of delegation to other citizens to decide for you. Now, don't know how is in Belgium, but in Italy we have a lot dumb people voting...
Thake USA, for example. There the turnout is very low (40-50%), but does this reduce the power or the legitimation of who's in charge? Not at all.
That's why imho, if there isn't a party you want to vote, then you should pick the "less awful" party you can.
Not voting isn't some kind of "rebel" position, but just a way for the main parties to keep their influence. And/or a sort of delegation to other citizens to decide for you. Now, don't know how is in Belgium, but in Italy we have a lot dumb people voting...
Thake USA, for example. There the turnout is very low (40-50%), but does this reduce the power or the legitimation of who's in charge? Not at all.
That's why imho, if there isn't a party you want to vote, then you should pick the "less awful" party you can.
Not voting isn't some kind of "rebel" position, but just a way for the main parties to keep their influence. And/or a sort of delegation to other citizens to decide for you. Now, don't know how is in Belgium, but in Italy we have a lot dumb people voting...
Even if I go voting, the main parties will keep their influence. Belgium is a true particracy.
And yes, a lot of people vote without knowledge or understanding of the problems. Especially in Belgium, since voting here is compulsory, so we have a turnout of 89% the last time. One vote will not make any difference. (Don't give the argument "If everybody thinks so": it is an individual choice, and the choice of others is independent from that.)
That's why imho, if there isn't a party you want to vote, then you should pick the "less awful" party you can.
I don't chose between the plague and cholera. You legitimize the fact that we vote on this by voting. I don't. I don't want to legitimize our 'democracy'. It is deeply flawed and is a tyranny of the majority. I want liberty, not slavery.
Look at the European level: the party that is closest to my view on the European Union, is a extreme right party, who is against all immigration (whilst I am for open borders) and against Islam. They are the closest because they are against the European Union, and so they want to take power away from the European level. I agree on that, but on some points, I think it would be wise to bring the power to the European level. For instance on defense (but this party is against a European Army). So I can't vote on this party, as they take positions that are completely the opposite of mine, and even more, because they are in my view a racist party.
What other party is 'less awful'? Well, the party of Verhofstadt. I ain't gonna vote on that madman.
Even if I go voting, the main parties will keep their influence. Belgium is a true particracy.
And yes, a lot of people vote without knowledge or understanding of the problems. Especially in Belgium, since voting here is compulsory, so we have a turnout of 89% the last time. One vote will not make any difference. (Don't give the argument "If everybody thinks so": it is an individual choice, and the choice of others is independent from that.)
That's why imho, if there isn't a party you want to vote, then you should pick the "less awful" party you can.
I don't chose between the plague and cholera. You legitimize the fact that we vote on this by voting. I don't. I don't want to legitimize our 'democracy'. It is deeply flawed and is a tyranny of the majority. I want liberty, not slavery.
Look at the European level: the party that is closest to my view on the European Union, is a extreme right party, who is against all immigration (whilst I am for open borders) and against Islam. They are the closest because they are against the European Union, and so they want to take power away from the European level. I agree on that, but on some points, I think it would be wise to bring the power to the European level. For instance on defense (but this party is against a European Army). So I can't vote on this party, as they take positions that are completely the opposite of mine, and even more, because they are in my view a racist party.
What other party is 'less awful'? Well, the party of Verhofstadt. I ain't gonna vote on that madman.