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Asunto: News Around The World
eurozone who?\
Countries who lend Greece the money they needed, money that could not be used for the people anymore who paid the taxes for it. Money Greece needed because their elected politicians made a complete mess of their country for a number of decades!
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Countries who lend Greece the money they needed, money that could not be used for the people anymore who paid the taxes for it. Money Greece needed because their elected politicians made a complete mess of their country for a number of decades!
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Countries who lend Greece the money they needed, money that could not be used for the people anymore who paid the taxes for it.
countries or privates?
for countries that's democracy, voting for wrong people tha help thieves.. those people should blame themselves!
for private.. that's market, lending money to thieves is always a big risk! Right solution to a bad lender money is to be lost!
I LOL at your morality in politics. as always!
countries or privates?
for countries that's democracy, voting for wrong people tha help thieves.. those people should blame themselves!
for private.. that's market, lending money to thieves is always a big risk! Right solution to a bad lender money is to be lost!
I LOL at your morality in politics. as always!
Why ask a question if you already know the answer you gonna get?
Another lol over (im)morals and a favorite subject ... :/
EDIT: and no, I can blame those who let all those countries join the Euro that should never had joined. Unfortunately that damage is already done. The question now is, if Greece is able to steal our money by not repaying the debt.
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Another lol over (im)morals and a favorite subject ... :/
EDIT: and no, I can blame those who let all those countries join the Euro that should never had joined. Unfortunately that damage is already done. The question now is, if Greece is able to steal our money by not repaying the debt.
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you also must blame yourself for electing people who gave your money for saving the german, framce and nederlands banks dude!
only 10% of that money xome to Greece, we are repaying and will repay a lots of them... ;)
we want a european meeting for debt cause obviusly its a european problem (or better global, but in Eu we will find a solution)
but lets go to the news:
[url=http://www.channel4.com/news/we-are-going-to-destroy-the-greek-oligarchy-system]'We are going to destroy the Greek oligarchy system'
Yanis Varoufakis, tipped to be Syriza's new finance minister, tells Paul Mason what his party would do if it gets into government in Greece, and admits the prospect of power in Europe is "scary".[/url]
‘We will not continue a policy of catastrophe’ says new Greek PM
Greek government faces 'straight talking' from EU's Schulz
Tsipras to Schulz: 'We count on you' - VIDEO
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only 10% of that money xome to Greece, we are repaying and will repay a lots of them... ;)
we want a european meeting for debt cause obviusly its a european problem (or better global, but in Eu we will find a solution)
but lets go to the news:
[url=http://www.channel4.com/news/we-are-going-to-destroy-the-greek-oligarchy-system]'We are going to destroy the Greek oligarchy system'
Yanis Varoufakis, tipped to be Syriza's new finance minister, tells Paul Mason what his party would do if it gets into government in Greece, and admits the prospect of power in Europe is "scary".[/url]
‘We will not continue a policy of catastrophe’ says new Greek PM
Greek government faces 'straight talking' from EU's Schulz
Tsipras to Schulz: 'We count on you' - VIDEO
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You voted those politicians too. Blame yourself (as country).
I showed several times that your money are gone to those bankers from northern country that CAN'T lose.
If the borrower repay they gain interest (Italy), if the borrower don't repay (Greece) public sector will guarantee the moneyback. If the state can't afford it there will be someother state that pay for them (Italy again I guess..)
Answer:
the Greece CAN'T repay its debt. It's impossible.
The only thing it has to be choosen is how to manage this new restructuration for its debt (euroexit and dracma devalutation, or an "haircut" on debt, or both?).
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I showed several times that your money are gone to those bankers from northern country that CAN'T lose.
If the borrower repay they gain interest (Italy), if the borrower don't repay (Greece) public sector will guarantee the moneyback. If the state can't afford it there will be someother state that pay for them (Italy again I guess..)
Answer:
the Greece CAN'T repay its debt. It's impossible.
The only thing it has to be choosen is how to manage this new restructuration for its debt (euroexit and dracma devalutation, or an "haircut" on debt, or both?).
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"Countries who lend Greece the money they needed, money that could not be used for the people anymore who paid the taxes for it. "
This is a lie. The money lent to Greece is not paid for by taxes, but by other loans. Bad idea to loan money so you can loan it to somebody else who might never pay it back, you thinkt? Well, not really. The Netherlands put €4bln in ESM, less than 1% of Dutch government debt, the risk is very low. The Netherlands borrows money for a very low or even negative interest rate and than loans it to Greece for a much higher interest rate and the Netherlands ends up making money.
Furthermore, Dutch national debt is mostly made up by government pensions and delayed taxes on pensions and probably exceeds the national debt. The costs for rescuing banks and other countries is a very small part of it.
This is a lie. The money lent to Greece is not paid for by taxes, but by other loans. Bad idea to loan money so you can loan it to somebody else who might never pay it back, you thinkt? Well, not really. The Netherlands put €4bln in ESM, less than 1% of Dutch government debt, the risk is very low. The Netherlands borrows money for a very low or even negative interest rate and than loans it to Greece for a much higher interest rate and the Netherlands ends up making money.
Furthermore, Dutch national debt is mostly made up by government pensions and delayed taxes on pensions and probably exceeds the national debt. The costs for rescuing banks and other countries is a very small part of it.
"the Greece CAN'T repay its debt. It's impossible."
Maybe we need to stop focusing on this altogether. Germany or the Netherland will never repay their debts either. The number will never reach zero.
Maybe we need to stop focusing on this altogether. Germany or the Netherland will never repay their debts either. The number will never reach zero.
If Mrs Merkel continues to oppose all efforts to kick-start growth and banish deflation in the euro zone, she will condemn Europe to a lost decade even more debilitating than Japan’s in the 1990s. That would surely trigger a bigger populist backlash than Greece’s, right across Europe. It is hard to see how the single currency could survive in such circumstances. And the biggest loser if it did not would be Germany itself.
Economist
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Economist
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Well, you need to explain that to people who keeps repeating that the Greek are parasiting poor Dutch taxpayers, etc :P
Ah, the magic of words...
There is a trivial insolvency problem. As a response, you:
- transfer resources from lenders to borrowers --> it is a default --> :-(
- transfer money from taxpayers to lenders --> it is a "memorandum of understanding" --> :-)
and then a bit of smoke and mirrors and you get all this "irresponsible, parasite" vs "serious, hardworking" rethoric...
There is a trivial insolvency problem. As a response, you:
- transfer resources from lenders to borrowers --> it is a default --> :-(
- transfer money from taxpayers to lenders --> it is a "memorandum of understanding" --> :-)
and then a bit of smoke and mirrors and you get all this "irresponsible, parasite" vs "serious, hardworking" rethoric...
Maybe we need to stop focusing on this altogether. Germany or the Netherland will never repay their debts either. The number will never reach zero.
Those are two different things. Rolling debt over is not the same as not paying it. The point is not for debt to go to zero, but for it to grow at non-explosive rates. The opposite implies a Ponzi scheme. For finite horizons (say, for a household), a Ponzi scheme can be linked to the debt never reaching zero: you roll it over until you "die in debt". But for infinite horizons there is no "death in debt", so the Ponzi scheme idea is expressed in terms of the present discounted value of debt: it has to go to zero as the time horizon goes to infinity. In other words, the present discounted value of all your present and future income should be enough to pay back the current stock of debt, even if you don't actually do that (why would you borrow, then :P). That guarantees that you can pay "enough" each period so that debt never exceeds the maximum you could possibly pay back by bringing all future resources to the present.
The "present discounted value", of course, involves an interest rate, and the relevant one is that of your debt. That's why we can half self-fulfilling debt crises: a level of debt that is sustainable with an interest rate of 3% may become unsustainable with an interest rate of 7%. So, if lenders perceive a higher probability of default, they may require a higher interest rate as a compensation. That higher interest rate may indeed render the debt unpayable, confirming the expectations of default. But if they continue to believe default is unlikely, they would only require a low interest rate, and the debt will be indeed "repayable"...
In any case, the bottom line: no one takes the debt down to zero, but every country makes some payment to its lenders each year. When we say that a country "can't repay its debt", we mean that in order to keep making the yearly payments, the country will have to issue increasing amounts of debt each year, further increasing yearly payments, etc. So, you can translate the "can repay vs can't repay" discussion to a "is not in a spiraling path vs it is in a spiraling path" discussion. At this moment, Germany and the Netherlands are not, but Greece, we could argue, is.
Those are two different things. Rolling debt over is not the same as not paying it. The point is not for debt to go to zero, but for it to grow at non-explosive rates. The opposite implies a Ponzi scheme. For finite horizons (say, for a household), a Ponzi scheme can be linked to the debt never reaching zero: you roll it over until you "die in debt". But for infinite horizons there is no "death in debt", so the Ponzi scheme idea is expressed in terms of the present discounted value of debt: it has to go to zero as the time horizon goes to infinity. In other words, the present discounted value of all your present and future income should be enough to pay back the current stock of debt, even if you don't actually do that (why would you borrow, then :P). That guarantees that you can pay "enough" each period so that debt never exceeds the maximum you could possibly pay back by bringing all future resources to the present.
The "present discounted value", of course, involves an interest rate, and the relevant one is that of your debt. That's why we can half self-fulfilling debt crises: a level of debt that is sustainable with an interest rate of 3% may become unsustainable with an interest rate of 7%. So, if lenders perceive a higher probability of default, they may require a higher interest rate as a compensation. That higher interest rate may indeed render the debt unpayable, confirming the expectations of default. But if they continue to believe default is unlikely, they would only require a low interest rate, and the debt will be indeed "repayable"...
In any case, the bottom line: no one takes the debt down to zero, but every country makes some payment to its lenders each year. When we say that a country "can't repay its debt", we mean that in order to keep making the yearly payments, the country will have to issue increasing amounts of debt each year, further increasing yearly payments, etc. So, you can translate the "can repay vs can't repay" discussion to a "is not in a spiraling path vs it is in a spiraling path" discussion. At this moment, Germany and the Netherlands are not, but Greece, we could argue, is.
you also must blame yourself for electing people who gave your money for saving the german, framce and nederlands banks dude!
The Dutch banks already repaid their loans to the Dutch government, dude!
The Dutch banks already repaid their loans to the Dutch government, dude!
you pretent the stupid the stupid or you are?
the loans was to repay the banks not to help greek economy
with a disasterus and failed aysterity program that we try it, so yes you must blame your
politician and yourself too...
game is over now, new deal for win win situation for all, or austerity and collapsion
the loans was to repay the banks not to help greek economy
with a disasterus and failed aysterity program that we try it, so yes you must blame your
politician and yourself too...
game is over now, new deal for win win situation for all, or austerity and collapsion
This is a lie. The money lent to Greece is not paid for by taxes, but by other loans.
That really depends on how you look at it. You can say all money lend to Greece comes from other loans, or from taxpayers and even more needed to be loaned as the tax money was already spend helping Greece because their politicians made a complete mess of that country. And if you talk in % it doesn't sound much, but if you look at it in a different way, how much money this is per person, a lot of Dutch could have used that really well themselves, instead of lend it to some country that more and more turns out to be untrustworthy.
That really depends on how you look at it. You can say all money lend to Greece comes from other loans, or from taxpayers and even more needed to be loaned as the tax money was already spend helping Greece because their politicians made a complete mess of that country. And if you talk in % it doesn't sound much, but if you look at it in a different way, how much money this is per person, a lot of Dutch could have used that really well themselves, instead of lend it to some country that more and more turns out to be untrustworthy.
game is over now, new deal for win win situation for all, or austerity and collapsion
Don't count on it, your country is far from saved and still needs a lot of help. You have voted for someone who claims to have the answers and the voters believed him, but you voted for change in your country, not for Europe.
Don't count on it, your country is far from saved and still needs a lot of help. You have voted for someone who claims to have the answers and the voters believed him, but you voted for change in your country, not for Europe.