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¡¡¡Tema cerrado!!!
Asunto: Brexit
Brexit to be followed by Italeave. Czechout.Finish.Slovakout.Latervia.Byegium.Luxembye.Portugone.Donemark.Frankoff.Spaout.Outstria.Polend.
Only one country will probably stay.
Remainia :)
Only one country will probably stay.
Remainia :)
Oh, you start about trolling??, mister anti-EU and nothing else to write. So yes, celebrate! Looking at all those posts of yours last few YEARS, this must be your greatest day in your boring life.
And I thought you are so well informed?! You know what a dropping Euro means, higher import costs. Did you look at labels of clothing, electronica, etc lately. There is no EU country on those labels, all comes from outside the EU. And what currencies are going up right now ... yes those currencies in countries we need to buy stuff from with dropping Euro's ..... Yes, it cost you and all of us money! Or are you going to tell lies and start telling me this isn't true??
You only agree with those things that fit your ideas. You fit the anti-EU part very well, use what you can use and ignore reality when it doesn't fit your ideas. This is what I could have predicted without the need of a crystal ball.
And I thought you are so well informed?! You know what a dropping Euro means, higher import costs. Did you look at labels of clothing, electronica, etc lately. There is no EU country on those labels, all comes from outside the EU. And what currencies are going up right now ... yes those currencies in countries we need to buy stuff from with dropping Euro's ..... Yes, it cost you and all of us money! Or are you going to tell lies and start telling me this isn't true??
You only agree with those things that fit your ideas. You fit the anti-EU part very well, use what you can use and ignore reality when it doesn't fit your ideas. This is what I could have predicted without the need of a crystal ball.
Or are you going to tell lies and start telling me this isn't true??
me?
I won't tell anything more to you.
may I could suggest a fisrt year macroeconomic manual to start connecting the concepts of offer and demand. When you'll realize that for buying you first need to have and what are the requisite of it... maybe..
Euro is out of topic (UK didn't use euro..) but is always useful to remember:
me?
I won't tell anything more to you.
may I could suggest a fisrt year macroeconomic manual to start connecting the concepts of offer and demand. When you'll realize that for buying you first need to have and what are the requisite of it... maybe..
Euro is out of topic (UK didn't use euro..) but is always useful to remember:
On the other hand, we also have a politician who is trying to destroy the relations of the Netherlands with the EU.
Who doesn't, it's a great strategy for low-impact politicans to start with.
+1
Who doesn't, it's a great strategy for low-impact politicans to start with.
+1
Lol, seriously, I don't provide any evidence. Take a fucking pack of any food and you'll see a perfect example of EU regulations.
still at that point?
I confirm my first answer (and yes, you can disagree!)
:D
I confirm my first answer (and yes, you can disagree!)
:D
Ah yes, also, did you know Blue is actually not a colour? I cannot prove it, but if I keep repeating it and make people believe it, they'll start agreeing with me.
The concept of 'truth' is not as easy as you probably think. But it's for sure out of topic...
The fall of an evil empire is started
nice!
we dont want THIS EU.
its antidemocratic and its only serves banks and certain interests...
nice!
we dont want THIS EU.
its antidemocratic and its only serves banks and certain interests...
El pupe why are you against EU
Is it about the refugees , money , ? It Isn't very clear to me ?
Is it about the refugees , money , ? It Isn't very clear to me ?
It's a very long and difficult answer to give (in english..) so I'm going to cut most of the demonstration and evidence.. (we can discuss them but I think it's better to make people curious and doubtful, an then leave them think about something new, if they are openminded they will find a path versus their new idea by themselves..)
It is for a democratic problem first.
EU CAN'T BE democratic, not for bad will or wrong politician, but for structural, political, economic, demografic, geografical, legal and cultural reasons.
There will never (*) be a democratic EU without producing enormous damages to the people.
And if you think about EU project comes since the start from elites and "founding fathers" but never from a bottom request.
(*) never means not in 30-50 years from now (and without wars) .
In second order there are monetary and economic reasons (that are only a consequence of the democratic problem, once EU started to run without a positive relation to the people's will... then it became an horse rided by big banks and lobbies, those lobbies projected and imposed the politics they prefer :euro coin, the balance rules etc without any kind of political responsability, the problem is not only you can't vote for or against Merkel.. but that you can't vote for deutsche bank CEO that gives the line..).
At the last position I have a problem with its no-sense in order of goals (both types: real and declared).
The effects of this are for example seen in migration (internal migration and external immigration) regulation of cost and benefits.. or in the regulation of markets (see banks recent rules) and products (size and curvature of bananas WTF?!?!).
Are EU a wrong project?
Not necessary. I'm not a nationalist (that's why I don't like a supernation that needs a supernationalism!!!)
IT's wrong to make an UNION (political, monetary, defensive) or a federation.
Old cooperation we had until '80s (treaties, allies and cooperation) were the perfect mix. Friends but free one each other. And it brought peace in the continent (with the help of USA's armies...) then Germany reunion broke it all...
It is for a democratic problem first.
EU CAN'T BE democratic, not for bad will or wrong politician, but for structural, political, economic, demografic, geografical, legal and cultural reasons.
There will never (*) be a democratic EU without producing enormous damages to the people.
And if you think about EU project comes since the start from elites and "founding fathers" but never from a bottom request.
(*) never means not in 30-50 years from now (and without wars) .
In second order there are monetary and economic reasons (that are only a consequence of the democratic problem, once EU started to run without a positive relation to the people's will... then it became an horse rided by big banks and lobbies, those lobbies projected and imposed the politics they prefer :euro coin, the balance rules etc without any kind of political responsability, the problem is not only you can't vote for or against Merkel.. but that you can't vote for deutsche bank CEO that gives the line..).
At the last position I have a problem with its no-sense in order of goals (both types: real and declared).
The effects of this are for example seen in migration (internal migration and external immigration) regulation of cost and benefits.. or in the regulation of markets (see banks recent rules) and products (size and curvature of bananas WTF?!?!).
Are EU a wrong project?
Not necessary. I'm not a nationalist (that's why I don't like a supernation that needs a supernationalism!!!)
IT's wrong to make an UNION (political, monetary, defensive) or a federation.
Old cooperation we had until '80s (treaties, allies and cooperation) were the perfect mix. Friends but free one each other. And it brought peace in the continent (with the help of USA's armies...) then Germany reunion broke it all...
I dont think EU is that elitaristic in its core. You mentioned EU produces damages for people. What do you mean by that? EU projects? I dont know about Italy but here you can apply with a project of whatever kind and be granted EU money to make it happen if its a viable and useful project for your country. You can be a minister or a street sweeper, doesnt matter.
EU started because steel and coal industries in different countries needed standard solutions for their products to gain maximum profit. I think it was indeed pretty elitaristic and gave profit to a select few but it has had huge development to be what it is today and it has only grown positively for the whole continent.
About the second argument: Banks are what make Europe. If we didnt have them most of the money would have been long gone from Europe. We dont have any advantage over cheaper and more popolous asian or south american countries. So how do we hold on to our money? Banks. Their one and only goal is to keep possession of money. So how else would you do it then for every country? You make single coin, you make standard balancing rules and you make standard regulations to keep it as simple as possible.
All this for making the boat a single strong unit. If you make a boat from materials from every single country you would have a mess noone understands or orientates in. And that brings us back to the first statement, how can every EU country separately have any kind of advantage over cheaper and more populous countries? Its impossible. A cooperation is what makes it possible. You can not have one country cleaning for example the Baltic Sea and another one dumping the waste straight into it and expect the situation to get better in your area. Its all connected and thats where EU comes in.
Without EU smaller nations in Europe would be as useless as countries in Central Asia currently are since they can´t compete at all. Bigger nations would perform a bit better but not for long. Its only a matter of time since the balance of power shifts from America-EU to America-Asia. With separate countries its rather sooner than later.
And about the food stuff you talked about i dont see anything wrong with standardization you mentioned. What is wrong with lower environmental costs(for example EU environmental regulations are alot stricter from local regulations for most of the EU countries basic regulations) and market costs for a food unit that still passes as acceptable quality food? Population grows everywhere and in europe population gets older so how the hell are you going to feed people if there is rapidly shrinking workforce? Yes they are probably with lower quality but you also have higher quality or homegrown foods to choose from and thats a food sector that has been grown substantially for a few years now. Thats all because of stricter EU laws on food and their nutrition value in recent years. Thats the whole point of EU market, its free, you have a choice. Its up to you. Of course there are stupid things like curvature of bananas or some other stuff also in these regulations but 90% of it is actually useful stuff because as i already said, its all connected somehow and same rules for everyone benefits eachother more than it penalises eachother.
I dont think EU is that elitaristic in its core. You mentioned EU produces damages for people. What do you mean by that? EU projects? I dont know about Italy but here you can apply with a project of whatever kind and be granted EU money to make it happen if its a viable and useful project for your country. You can be a minister or a street sweeper, doesnt matter.
Not project financed by EU, but the project that EU does (political, militar, social etc)
BTW the same money you get from EU you can have by a national state.
EU started because steel and coal industries in different countries needed standard solutions for their products to gain maximum profit. I think it was indeed pretty elitaristic and gave profit to a select few but it has had huge development to be what it is today and it has only grown positively for the whole continent.
EU started like that because it was useful, now it's not.
About the second argument: Banks are what make Europe.
We need banks, not to be regulated by banks. That's all. we need financial industry AS MUCH as other.
The fact banks would need the same currency for some reason it's simply false. It's shown by the fact that the worst banks crisis are in euro area.
Euro is needed to protect money lenders from currency floatings.
But currency floatings are needed to absorb the change in productivity equilibrium.
When you are in a fixed exchange rate system the only way you can absorb them is lowering salaries.
So the currency union is useful for rentiers and dangerous for workers.
Banks. Their one and only goal is to keep possession of money.
no, it's to invest them where it is more productive.
All this for making the boat a single strong unit. If you make a boat from materials from every single country you would have a mess noone understands or orientates in. And that brings us back to the first statement, how can every EU country separately have any kind of advantage over cheaper and more populous countries? Its impossible.
this current argument is simply false.
You don't need in any way to get bigger to better compete.
That's false, there are a lot of studies (look on FMI or anywhere else) that demonstrate that national state are mostly the efficent level for legislation and market protection.
And You don't need standardization in order to get better, you need what you need.
Maybe you need standardization with China for chemical-free food, and not any standard with france for public balance rules.. to decide that onesizefitsall politic is always right is stupid.
Without EU smaller nations in Europe would be as useless as countries in Central Asia currently are since they can´t compete at all.
in next years S. Korea are predicted to begin the first county in the world for standard of life. They have nothing of it...
This common idea that bigger is better has no fondament at all.
and facts shows it.
the more we are connected the worst it goes. the only area economically depressed in the world is euro area..nowadays..
Its only a matter of time since the balance of power shifts from America-EU to America-Asia.
I can't understand it. What power do you talk about?
that's another common idea, but I can't understand wht power for doing what with it. are you talking of sending armies around the world to enslave people and rob resources?? And except of it, why it's neede a big state? European history shows that the bigger progress were done in a national structure..
Let's think how to improve and work and produce, not how to rule someone else.
And about the food stuff you talked about
So you think it's good for EU people to decide to ban over 200 species of tomatoes from commerce or to decide the diameter of zucchini and their curvature?
Do you think that allowing a certain control and not others over anti-biotics in livestocks, is a better for consumer? Where is the advantage here?
But in general, why can't we regulate it at local level?
You prefer a standard with russia? DO it.
I prefer 7 different standards in italy, what's the problem?
the problem is you first decide that there must be a open market and then you need to make one rule for all.
maye the real problem is that we don't need a common open market.
its all connected somehow and same rules for everyone benefits eachother more than it penalises eachother.
the fact that standardizing and make product uniform and tradable without costs, benefits each other is not always true. The point is here: this can't be the solution for all products and services.
If someone take it as a religion mantra (or an ideology) we have the demonstration he's no more thinking about critically.
And ideology (or religion) is the key to understand the majority of EU politics:
free market, standardization, public balance control, privatization, liberalization in work laws.
More of them can be good or bad in differente situation, but when they get a brainless mantra..
Not project financed by EU, but the project that EU does (political, militar, social etc)
BTW the same money you get from EU you can have by a national state.
EU started because steel and coal industries in different countries needed standard solutions for their products to gain maximum profit. I think it was indeed pretty elitaristic and gave profit to a select few but it has had huge development to be what it is today and it has only grown positively for the whole continent.
EU started like that because it was useful, now it's not.
About the second argument: Banks are what make Europe.
We need banks, not to be regulated by banks. That's all. we need financial industry AS MUCH as other.
The fact banks would need the same currency for some reason it's simply false. It's shown by the fact that the worst banks crisis are in euro area.
Euro is needed to protect money lenders from currency floatings.
But currency floatings are needed to absorb the change in productivity equilibrium.
When you are in a fixed exchange rate system the only way you can absorb them is lowering salaries.
So the currency union is useful for rentiers and dangerous for workers.
Banks. Their one and only goal is to keep possession of money.
no, it's to invest them where it is more productive.
All this for making the boat a single strong unit. If you make a boat from materials from every single country you would have a mess noone understands or orientates in. And that brings us back to the first statement, how can every EU country separately have any kind of advantage over cheaper and more populous countries? Its impossible.
this current argument is simply false.
You don't need in any way to get bigger to better compete.
That's false, there are a lot of studies (look on FMI or anywhere else) that demonstrate that national state are mostly the efficent level for legislation and market protection.
And You don't need standardization in order to get better, you need what you need.
Maybe you need standardization with China for chemical-free food, and not any standard with france for public balance rules.. to decide that onesizefitsall politic is always right is stupid.
Without EU smaller nations in Europe would be as useless as countries in Central Asia currently are since they can´t compete at all.
in next years S. Korea are predicted to begin the first county in the world for standard of life. They have nothing of it...
This common idea that bigger is better has no fondament at all.
and facts shows it.
the more we are connected the worst it goes. the only area economically depressed in the world is euro area..nowadays..
Its only a matter of time since the balance of power shifts from America-EU to America-Asia.
I can't understand it. What power do you talk about?
that's another common idea, but I can't understand wht power for doing what with it. are you talking of sending armies around the world to enslave people and rob resources?? And except of it, why it's neede a big state? European history shows that the bigger progress were done in a national structure..
Let's think how to improve and work and produce, not how to rule someone else.
And about the food stuff you talked about
So you think it's good for EU people to decide to ban over 200 species of tomatoes from commerce or to decide the diameter of zucchini and their curvature?
Do you think that allowing a certain control and not others over anti-biotics in livestocks, is a better for consumer? Where is the advantage here?
But in general, why can't we regulate it at local level?
You prefer a standard with russia? DO it.
I prefer 7 different standards in italy, what's the problem?
the problem is you first decide that there must be a open market and then you need to make one rule for all.
maye the real problem is that we don't need a common open market.
its all connected somehow and same rules for everyone benefits eachother more than it penalises eachother.
the fact that standardizing and make product uniform and tradable without costs, benefits each other is not always true. The point is here: this can't be the solution for all products and services.
If someone take it as a religion mantra (or an ideology) we have the demonstration he's no more thinking about critically.
And ideology (or religion) is the key to understand the majority of EU politics:
free market, standardization, public balance control, privatization, liberalization in work laws.
More of them can be good or bad in differente situation, but when they get a brainless mantra..