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Asunto: [idea] Youth player development
- 1
Dtox9 para
Todos
There are lots and lots of useless players coming out of the youth school. Often because they have a terrible general youth skill.
What is the point in pulling a ''good'' youth pull when he's already 18 or older? You just know he will be useless and ready to sack.
Also skill distribution is fully random and that combined with a lower general youth skill is a guarantee for terrible players!
Combined with the limited room for training players, a youth player must be of at least incredible level to at least be trainable.
Then there's the incompetence of your (magical - unearthly) coach to estimate a player after even 30 weeks...so you actually don't have a clue on how good or bad a player really is or could be.
So I have a proposition to counter the uselessness of youth players...
- Because of the shorter seasons, the youth players should be able to start from 15 years of age in stead of 16.
- Minimum starting level of youth players entering the school should be adjusted with the age, just to give the players a decent chance to evolve
15 = tragic
16 = unsatisfactory
17 = weak
18 = adequate
- Minimum pulling level should be achieved for entering the senior team.
15 = NO entering
16 = good
17 = very good
18 = formidable
19 = incredible
20 = magical
21 = divine
22 = auto pull
-> Players who do not reach the minimum level should be able to train further on. If their talent give away that they won't be able to reach the minimum level, they can always be sacked.
- Players should at least be 1 full season (13 weeks) within the youth team before they would be able to be promoted to the senior team IF they have reached the minimum required skill for their age. Players coming into the youth school with only a few weeks is just unrealistic and ridiculous.
- Players should be able to stay inside the youth team for the maximum period of 60 weeks (5 full seasons). It's not because they reach their minimum pulling level that they must be pulled.
- [b]Players should be able to develop at least 1 skill (right column - position skill) beyond the excellent cap. ATT need 3 mainskills and the excellent cap makes that often too many skill points are lost on GK, passing, defender and / or playmaker. It's good to have bonus points on side skills, but ridiculous if they have more side skills than main skills. Imo the main right column skill should be able to develop without a growth cap.
- The stamina skill should grow with matches, not with the other skills. This meaning the youth matches would give stamina training so it would give the matches an actual purpose.
Also, give stamina a 2nd purpose. Make it a skill, being able to go up to superdivine. Players with very high stamina should be tending to stay in better form and be better equipped against injuries. I hear lots of you thinking... what about the current senior players? They have max formidable stamina?
Well... move the cap from formidable to superdivine so players will be able to grow beyond formidable, even now.
Because formidable is the general cap now, they will gradually grow with a similar speed and won't be better than other senior players. The time the first player(s) become superdivine will also be the time when other players might (almost) become superdivine.
Stamina should also be a skill that determines how good a player will maintain their other skills. It should also determine the maximum pace of the player.
A player with superdivine stamina should be able to reach superdivine pace, but if he drops down to divine, the pace skill should also drop along with it.
Stamina should ad up in to following way, to have a fair growth:
Tragic [0] = base level when entering the youth team
Hopeless [1] = 3 x 90 minutes played (3 full matches)
Unsatisfactory [2] = 4 x 90 minutes played
Poor [3] = 5 x 90 minutes played.
weak [4] = 6 x 90 minutes played
...
to reach superdivine stamina, a player needs at least 207 matches played.
This gives the NT - U21 teams an extra bonus and it gives people a reason to let their players play for their national team.
A normal season today has 33 matches for the senior team and 12 matches for a youth team.
Because of this, a youth player can reach a maximum level of [8] solid before entering the senior school. (52 matches played = level 8)
This bundle of ideas could all work as stand-alone points, so it's not necessary to make this topic an all or nothing topic.
It's just a way for me to place more reason and fairness into the youth and to prevent players from being pulled as being completely useless! These players should be sacked within the youth school, not in the senior team, right after pulling them!
Also, because of this, youth schools are not in need of getting up to 6 new youth players each week.
Give each starting school a first youth growth of 11 players and after that, each week from 0 to 2 new players.
Quantity is useless if the quality of 95% is beyond bad!
These idea's are fully complementary with the future plans of the devs for the youth academy, and / or could be adjusted with my point of quality versus quantity.
I'm fully open for idea's and adjustments on my idea's and also fully aware that there's a very slim chance that these idea's will be implemented, let alone considered by the devs, but people should have an open mind for idea's if they might ad to the fun factor of the game.
What is the point in pulling a ''good'' youth pull when he's already 18 or older? You just know he will be useless and ready to sack.
Also skill distribution is fully random and that combined with a lower general youth skill is a guarantee for terrible players!
Combined with the limited room for training players, a youth player must be of at least incredible level to at least be trainable.
Then there's the incompetence of your (magical - unearthly) coach to estimate a player after even 30 weeks...so you actually don't have a clue on how good or bad a player really is or could be.
So I have a proposition to counter the uselessness of youth players...
- Because of the shorter seasons, the youth players should be able to start from 15 years of age in stead of 16.
- Minimum starting level of youth players entering the school should be adjusted with the age, just to give the players a decent chance to evolve
15 = tragic
16 = unsatisfactory
17 = weak
18 = adequate
- Minimum pulling level should be achieved for entering the senior team.
15 = NO entering
16 = good
17 = very good
18 = formidable
19 = incredible
20 = magical
21 = divine
22 = auto pull
-> Players who do not reach the minimum level should be able to train further on. If their talent give away that they won't be able to reach the minimum level, they can always be sacked.
- Players should at least be 1 full season (13 weeks) within the youth team before they would be able to be promoted to the senior team IF they have reached the minimum required skill for their age. Players coming into the youth school with only a few weeks is just unrealistic and ridiculous.
- Players should be able to stay inside the youth team for the maximum period of 60 weeks (5 full seasons). It's not because they reach their minimum pulling level that they must be pulled.
- [b]Players should be able to develop at least 1 skill (right column - position skill) beyond the excellent cap. ATT need 3 mainskills and the excellent cap makes that often too many skill points are lost on GK, passing, defender and / or playmaker. It's good to have bonus points on side skills, but ridiculous if they have more side skills than main skills. Imo the main right column skill should be able to develop without a growth cap.
- The stamina skill should grow with matches, not with the other skills. This meaning the youth matches would give stamina training so it would give the matches an actual purpose.
Also, give stamina a 2nd purpose. Make it a skill, being able to go up to superdivine. Players with very high stamina should be tending to stay in better form and be better equipped against injuries. I hear lots of you thinking... what about the current senior players? They have max formidable stamina?
Well... move the cap from formidable to superdivine so players will be able to grow beyond formidable, even now.
Because formidable is the general cap now, they will gradually grow with a similar speed and won't be better than other senior players. The time the first player(s) become superdivine will also be the time when other players might (almost) become superdivine.
Stamina should also be a skill that determines how good a player will maintain their other skills. It should also determine the maximum pace of the player.
A player with superdivine stamina should be able to reach superdivine pace, but if he drops down to divine, the pace skill should also drop along with it.
Stamina should ad up in to following way, to have a fair growth:
Tragic [0] = base level when entering the youth team
Hopeless [1] = 3 x 90 minutes played (3 full matches)
Unsatisfactory [2] = 4 x 90 minutes played
Poor [3] = 5 x 90 minutes played.
weak [4] = 6 x 90 minutes played
...
to reach superdivine stamina, a player needs at least 207 matches played.
This gives the NT - U21 teams an extra bonus and it gives people a reason to let their players play for their national team.
A normal season today has 33 matches for the senior team and 12 matches for a youth team.
Because of this, a youth player can reach a maximum level of [8] solid before entering the senior school. (52 matches played = level 8)
This bundle of ideas could all work as stand-alone points, so it's not necessary to make this topic an all or nothing topic.
It's just a way for me to place more reason and fairness into the youth and to prevent players from being pulled as being completely useless! These players should be sacked within the youth school, not in the senior team, right after pulling them!
Also, because of this, youth schools are not in need of getting up to 6 new youth players each week.
Give each starting school a first youth growth of 11 players and after that, each week from 0 to 2 new players.
Quantity is useless if the quality of 95% is beyond bad!
These idea's are fully complementary with the future plans of the devs for the youth academy, and / or could be adjusted with my point of quality versus quantity.
I'm fully open for idea's and adjustments on my idea's and also fully aware that there's a very slim chance that these idea's will be implemented, let alone considered by the devs, but people should have an open mind for idea's if they might ad to the fun factor of the game.
Maybe an extra point for stamina... Stamina drops!
Stamina drop will occur with injuries and / or weeks without matches.
So a slight injury won't have any effect
a normal or large injury will instantly drop the stamina skill with 1 point, but won't deteriorate further after that for as long as the injury lasts.
Players who don't play during 1 week should lose the equivalent of 5 matches within the skill. this solely for the purpose of playing all your players at least once each week and prevent teams for having 50+ players within their team.
Then, with age...let stamina drop down with 1 skill from the age of 34 and 1 extra skill for each adding year after that up to the level of formidable.
Players should be able to maintain a level of formidable stamina until they reach the age of 50, provided they play their match each week. Also they should be able to work their stamina up to formidable when it would've dropped down further (because of injury or not playing matches) After that (age of 50), the stamina skill should deteriorate further down with each adding year.
This would give older players more marging for playing.
(editado)
Stamina drop will occur with injuries and / or weeks without matches.
So a slight injury won't have any effect
a normal or large injury will instantly drop the stamina skill with 1 point, but won't deteriorate further after that for as long as the injury lasts.
Players who don't play during 1 week should lose the equivalent of 5 matches within the skill. this solely for the purpose of playing all your players at least once each week and prevent teams for having 50+ players within their team.
Then, with age...let stamina drop down with 1 skill from the age of 34 and 1 extra skill for each adding year after that up to the level of formidable.
Players should be able to maintain a level of formidable stamina until they reach the age of 50, provided they play their match each week. Also they should be able to work their stamina up to formidable when it would've dropped down further (because of injury or not playing matches) After that (age of 50), the stamina skill should deteriorate further down with each adding year.
This would give older players more marging for playing.
(editado)
this is a good way to progress, but definitly the level 0 to 3 at the enter of the academy MUST be removed , if a young man want play football , at 15 years old, he knows how to run and kick a ball.
if we have a school then why the matches played aren't used to help the player progress?
if he plays defender, his defender characteristics improve, same for a Gk, a MId, an ATT
if we have a school then why the matches played aren't used to help the player progress?
if he plays defender, his defender characteristics improve, same for a Gk, a MId, an ATT
but definitly the level 0 to 3 at the enter of the academy MUST be removed
Oh no... I disagree. If he leaves the academy to enter the senior squad... THAT is another thing.
But the thing is, that tragic has to be seen as the weakest in the game, not like a player who's unable to understand football.
I just want to prevent players to come into the senior squad while actually being too weak to even play for the junior squad.
Junior players are learning how to play, so their development should be at least as fast as a top talent senior team player.
if he plays defender, his defender characteristics improve, same for a Gk, a MId, an ATT
Well... to a certain degree I would agree to this.
A youth player playing as GK should improve keeper, pace, passing and playmaker
A youth player playing as def should improve defender, pace, technique and playmaker
A youth player playing as mid should improve pace, technique, passing and playmaker
A youth player playing as striker should improve pace, technique, striker and playmaker
Next to these skills, they should also improve a random skill for each level in the youth.
So this means each skill gives 3 skillpoints, of which 2 are distributed to the 4 main skills and 1 for a random skill out of the 7 skills (except stamina)
In example, a player ending as being an excellent youth player, who came into the youth as being average and who played 15 matches as defender should have at least 20 skillpoints distributed over pace, technique, defender and playmaker.
With this formula, random still is the major factor in the skill distribution, but it will contain more logic and common sence.
It might also be nice if youth coaches give their comment on how players play on certain places.
An example of my own team could then be:
Iebe Correyn thinks Gil Van den Bussche has no future as a defender. Placing him on another position could improve his development.
Also positive comments on their skill development could be a nice addition to the game.
Iebe Correyn saw Eddy Philipsen play a very good game as a midfielder! He might reach his potential by playing more matches as a midfielder.
or
Bert Peer have played poorly on the position of striker. Iebe Correyn isn't conviced of his potential, however, he sees potential in the player.
Playing him more often will give clearity on his optimal position.
Oh no... I disagree. If he leaves the academy to enter the senior squad... THAT is another thing.
But the thing is, that tragic has to be seen as the weakest in the game, not like a player who's unable to understand football.
I just want to prevent players to come into the senior squad while actually being too weak to even play for the junior squad.
Junior players are learning how to play, so their development should be at least as fast as a top talent senior team player.
if he plays defender, his defender characteristics improve, same for a Gk, a MId, an ATT
Well... to a certain degree I would agree to this.
A youth player playing as GK should improve keeper, pace, passing and playmaker
A youth player playing as def should improve defender, pace, technique and playmaker
A youth player playing as mid should improve pace, technique, passing and playmaker
A youth player playing as striker should improve pace, technique, striker and playmaker
Next to these skills, they should also improve a random skill for each level in the youth.
So this means each skill gives 3 skillpoints, of which 2 are distributed to the 4 main skills and 1 for a random skill out of the 7 skills (except stamina)
In example, a player ending as being an excellent youth player, who came into the youth as being average and who played 15 matches as defender should have at least 20 skillpoints distributed over pace, technique, defender and playmaker.
With this formula, random still is the major factor in the skill distribution, but it will contain more logic and common sence.
It might also be nice if youth coaches give their comment on how players play on certain places.
An example of my own team could then be:
Iebe Correyn thinks Gil Van den Bussche has no future as a defender. Placing him on another position could improve his development.
Also positive comments on their skill development could be a nice addition to the game.
Iebe Correyn saw Eddy Philipsen play a very good game as a midfielder! He might reach his potential by playing more matches as a midfielder.
or
Bert Peer have played poorly on the position of striker. Iebe Correyn isn't conviced of his potential, however, he sees potential in the player.
Playing him more often will give clearity on his optimal position.
if a player enter in Academy at 15 Yo, he has already played football since he had 10 years, so normally he has some bases. ( that's like IRL.) That is why i do not like tragic skills (.and 1-2 level).
but I join you on the fact that nothing logical is in the school now, and that will be improve , by adapting the skills to the time passed to play at one position,
For now this is unacceptable to have a GK when he leave the school to have a tragic gk skill, the lack of consistency definitly.
It might also be nice if youth coaches give their comment on how players play on certain places.
yes that could be a good way, but that need improvement of the coach estimation.
For Now, a Magic coach is unable to give a fair estimate, which is more than demotivating for users
but I join you on the fact that nothing logical is in the school now, and that will be improve , by adapting the skills to the time passed to play at one position,
For now this is unacceptable to have a GK when he leave the school to have a tragic gk skill, the lack of consistency definitly.
It might also be nice if youth coaches give their comment on how players play on certain places.
yes that could be a good way, but that need improvement of the coach estimation.
For Now, a Magic coach is unable to give a fair estimate, which is more than demotivating for users
For Now, a Magic coach is unable to give a fair estimate
Indeed. Lots of managers have complained about that in the past.
Why the skill drops? It's totally irrational and unlogical.
I would rather have the coach reveiling ranges of where the player situates himself.
So f.e.
Jochem Vercammen 16 [poor - adequate] 24
As for the tragic skills...you should not look at it as being really tragic, like, he can do totally nothing with this skill.
But more like the lowest skill a player would have when coming out of the school. I understand it hurts on the eyes, when seeing tragic pace f.e., but it's just that he runs the slowest of them all, but he still runs!
Maybe give youth players reviews after several weeks playing for the youth squad, stating their strong points.
So f.e., Jochem Vercammen 17 [adequate - very good] 14, technical defender
I still think the ceiling of skills on excellent is still too low to bring the philosophy of the game to it's rightfull point.
Indeed. Lots of managers have complained about that in the past.
Why the skill drops? It's totally irrational and unlogical.
I would rather have the coach reveiling ranges of where the player situates himself.
So f.e.
Jochem Vercammen 16 [poor - adequate] 24
As for the tragic skills...you should not look at it as being really tragic, like, he can do totally nothing with this skill.
But more like the lowest skill a player would have when coming out of the school. I understand it hurts on the eyes, when seeing tragic pace f.e., but it's just that he runs the slowest of them all, but he still runs!
Maybe give youth players reviews after several weeks playing for the youth squad, stating their strong points.
So f.e., Jochem Vercammen 17 [adequate - very good] 14, technical defender
I still think the ceiling of skills on excellent is still too low to bring the philosophy of the game to it's rightfull point.
The shortening of the season is an intended effect for lowering the players quality on sokker, too high as now. I like this purpose, so this means that all the proposal that raise the skills level couldn't be considered. So, in my opinion
- youth players should be able to start from 15 years of age: +1. - more time to test the talent.
- Minimum starting level of youth players entering the school should be adjusted with the age: -1 - IMHO, not realistic
- Minimum pulling level should be achieved for entering the senior team. -1 - In my opinion, it should be a strategic personal choice
- Players should at least be 1 full season (13 weeks) within the youth team -1 - just think about a low league club. It can promote directly a big talent into main team. This should be a strategic personal choice too.
- Players should be able to stay inside the youth team for the maximum period of 60 weeks (5 full seasons) -1 - I should prefer an age limit.
- Players should be able to develop at least 1 skill (right column - position skill) beyond the excellent cap +1 - In my opinion, all the skills should not have any limit, just a skill balancing for avoiding too unreal leveling (ex. 17 striker and 0 technique)
- The stamina skill -1 - In my opinion, I find it unrealistic. Let's keep Football manager as example. The injury risk increase when the condition skill is too low, but condition is not a skill in sokker. And about raising according with the played matches, is not realistic. Think about a marathon runner, he has the best stamina level without having played a football match and he could have a low pace. What is related with the played matches number is the form.
- youth players should be able to start from 15 years of age: +1. - more time to test the talent.
- Minimum starting level of youth players entering the school should be adjusted with the age: -1 - IMHO, not realistic
- Minimum pulling level should be achieved for entering the senior team. -1 - In my opinion, it should be a strategic personal choice
- Players should at least be 1 full season (13 weeks) within the youth team -1 - just think about a low league club. It can promote directly a big talent into main team. This should be a strategic personal choice too.
- Players should be able to stay inside the youth team for the maximum period of 60 weeks (5 full seasons) -1 - I should prefer an age limit.
- Players should be able to develop at least 1 skill (right column - position skill) beyond the excellent cap +1 - In my opinion, all the skills should not have any limit, just a skill balancing for avoiding too unreal leveling (ex. 17 striker and 0 technique)
- The stamina skill -1 - In my opinion, I find it unrealistic. Let's keep Football manager as example. The injury risk increase when the condition skill is too low, but condition is not a skill in sokker. And about raising according with the played matches, is not realistic. Think about a marathon runner, he has the best stamina level without having played a football match and he could have a low pace. What is related with the played matches number is the form.
Think about a marathon runner, he has the best stamina level without having played a football match and he could have a low pace. What is related with the played matches number is the form.
You cannot take a marathon runner as an example, since he is not a football player.
Football players don't train in the same way as marathon runners because they need explosive and technical training to be able to use a large amount of power within their actions, like duels, shot power and acceleration, which are not needed for marathon runners. Also dribbling, passing, bal control,...all are needed, but not for a marathon runner.
In my proposition, stamina would be a skill, up to superdivine, like all other skills. But that said, it's a stand-alone proposition.
About your opinions about stragtegic personal choices, my proposals are all to avoid pulling players which would always be in zero value to any team.
Players like:
Edouard Merckx, age: 25
club: Racing Roeland, country: België
value : 110 000 €
wage: 1 775 €
poor [3] form
good [7] tactical discipline
height: 175 cm, weight: 75 kg, BMI: 24.49
excellent [10] stamina tragic [0] keeper
good [7] pace solid [8] defender
solid [8] technique solid [8] playmaker
poor [3] passing weak [4] striker
They would be (very) good youth players up to the age of 19
But this player was 19 when he came out of my youth and had only 1 good skill. The rest was ranged from tragic to weak.
I only kept him because of the name (Eddy Merckx), as a mascotte player.
If I could've kept him until he turned 22, within the youth school, he would be much better right now. And that's why I proposed it. To have a strategical option to either keep him as a youth player and train him further on, OR to pull him after 13 weeks
Thank you for your opinion.
You cannot take a marathon runner as an example, since he is not a football player.
Football players don't train in the same way as marathon runners because they need explosive and technical training to be able to use a large amount of power within their actions, like duels, shot power and acceleration, which are not needed for marathon runners. Also dribbling, passing, bal control,...all are needed, but not for a marathon runner.
In my proposition, stamina would be a skill, up to superdivine, like all other skills. But that said, it's a stand-alone proposition.
About your opinions about stragtegic personal choices, my proposals are all to avoid pulling players which would always be in zero value to any team.
Players like:
Edouard Merckx, age: 25
club: Racing Roeland, country: België
value : 110 000 €
wage: 1 775 €
poor [3] form
good [7] tactical discipline
height: 175 cm, weight: 75 kg, BMI: 24.49
excellent [10] stamina tragic [0] keeper
good [7] pace solid [8] defender
solid [8] technique solid [8] playmaker
poor [3] passing weak [4] striker
They would be (very) good youth players up to the age of 19
But this player was 19 when he came out of my youth and had only 1 good skill. The rest was ranged from tragic to weak.
I only kept him because of the name (Eddy Merckx), as a mascotte player.
If I could've kept him until he turned 22, within the youth school, he would be much better right now. And that's why I proposed it. To have a strategical option to either keep him as a youth player and train him further on, OR to pull him after 13 weeks
Thank you for your opinion.
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