Asunto: National Team

And a victory is a victory. You can see if he is lucky by watching the match. But one thing is clear - without luck, nothing happens. I lost the semi-final of the World Cup with total domination. On penalties I had predicted 5 strikers who are in super shape - some of the best in the world. None of them managed to score a goal :)

I think that's the difference between a small nations and a large nation (or cherry picking off the transfer market).

I can guarantee a few of us will be doing perfect training of the most talented players Australia has, and the level they are at is the absolute best they could have been (taking in to consideration any injuries).

Personally I have trained Sutton, Pondeljak, Burke, Schofield, Van Gisbergen (young one coming through), all of which are top 10 or very close, of mids coming through in the past 20 seasons.

Without having access to my notes, beside Sutton who was the #1 we have ever had at 4x16 and def at 14, all the others were better than 4x15 but not quite 4x16, with mid range defender

Anyway great win first up mate, very impressive, hope you can repeat that against the number 1 and 2 seeds

I mean, training mids since 2006 is almost meaningless when training has changed in the last 2 years. I’ve trained many mids over the years myself and the only ones I’d even mention in this equation are my more recent experiences, Renaud/Scuderi and Leijer. In regards to Renaud and Scuderi they had impressive talents, were 17 when pulled and have been training regularly and still are at 28 and 27 are neither are 4x unearthly yet. Renaud will be really close to that shortly and Scuderi may get to the mark sometime next season.

It really isn’t that easy. It requires an Australian player to be pulled who is young enough and talented enough and has a good skill distribution. It then requires falling to the right trainer who has the right setup and can give them prolonged training.

Sure from a club perspective I’m sure you can pick up trainees from elsewhere in the world pretty regularly but Australia has a handful of users - probably a dozen that have any activity in the youth school space. The odds are against us.

That being said there is nothing wrong with having high expectations or setting a stretch target, it’s just not a really likely target and so you need to aim for less rather than we need a winger or more mids with defense.

I also know agbell and Achmid also have trained mids for years too and the best I can recall was Sutton. Renaud is likely the closest to Sutton (can’t remember where Burton and Burke ended up) but Schofield and Scuderi may end up closer to Sutton then Renaud is currently.

As for the result yeah, the end score is all that ultimately matters but it doesn’t mean you turn a blind eye to the rest. It’s a good start, as I said but I think we can also acknowledge that this game could have gone a different way just as easily and so there’s still work to do.

I agree with a lot of what you say. By the way, Schofield, for example, if trained, will become a very decent winger. Here in Bulgaria we have accepted our best players to train up to 30 years old. This way they will be much more useful to the national team.
I agree - there is a lot of work. But you can be sure that whatever I can I will do. I will try to climb the team in the rankings, and in the qualification I hope we will be lucky :))

Thats great they are training up to 30.
Currently I'm aiming to finish players off some time in to the 28s, or bumping them up if they lose a skill in the 28s

Brilliant start! Just what we needed.

On the midfielder front. You have the crystal ball. Have you identified the next generation of top midfielders? Are they on track to reach the levels we need? From watching the U21s and training Chen, it seems we only ever have one or two mids each season, who are head and shoulders above the rest.

I haven't watched the young people. But if you insist I can watch them too. From the generation that comes ( players that are training in Australia ) :
- Gk - Talon Bracken ( has great potential ) , Austin Munn ( no comment on him :)) ) , + Vincent Kalac , who is not with you , but if trained at pace will be a super - solid core .
- DEF - Ian Carr ( only needs secondary trains ) , I would say the same for Barney Peters .Nick Haddrill - only pass and playmaker , Maka Langdon - if trained only on technique , pass and playmaker , at the end of 26 , when the core skills are peeled off will be super .
- MID - Travis Jayanthi - my opinion is different here. Speed is the hardest and slowest to train. That's why you train while the player is young. Here instead of training the basic skills so much they should have picked up at least 2 more levels of speed. Shaun Bulloch - if you only train passing and technique and inter-season pace... you might end up with something like 15/15/15/12/16 at the end of 27. Alex Van Gisbergen - if it's possible to pick up 2 levels of speed by the end of the season it would be ok. After that only technique , passing and playmaker - they are trained much faster. I think this boy will be a very good winger!...
- АТТ - Sebastian Morgan , Mick Harries also has a chance...Dale Rose - well he's 23. I don't know who taught you like this,but you reverse the coaching and so your players pick up slower,as they get older. I'll say it again - for every position there are skills that train faster and skills that train slower. Speed is trained equally slow for everyone. That is why you train while the player is young . By the end of 22 a defender or striker should have already picked up level 15 speed , because at 23 speed starts to slow down already. If we add the players who are outside Australia we can say that is good.
If I've missed any you can me to look it up.
I hope I have guided you according to what I understand as a way of training.

I definitely agree regarding pace.
Everyone here trains for both NTs so my general recommendation is to aim to train pace high but at 20, start to round out skills a little for u21s (won't go in to details of level in a public forum) and then get back on to pace last 21 and 22 until at least level 15 pace (mainly for mids).
Once people are back on to pace after u21s for GK/ATT/DEF, should go to divine (17) before focusing on other skills.....BUT it still needs to fit in with your other training, so not always possible.

Sounds like we think similarly with training :)

+1 :) You even explained it better than me :))

Rose has a reason for why he is where he is skill wise and it’s not entirely by choice. There’s 2/3 names I’ll give you and then you can work out the rest.

Greenwood
Panopoulos
Crampton

Basically I was holding onto others that needed other training. He’s on pace atm anyway and will be for probably next two seasons. I could have gone a season earlier perhaps if I used him as def orders but then that would have mucked up other things I was doing at the time.

Whilst I’m an advocate for pace training early and where I can I train it first, I’ve never actually seen any actual numerical proof that training order matters and by how much. What we know is that regardless of age, pace trains slower. We also know that as a player ages all skills train slower. What I’m unsure about is whether all skills slow down at the same rate. If it does then the order you train a player in barely matters. If it doesn’t and pace slows down even more then other skills for a single age increase then yes pace would be far more beneficial to get earlier.

We do know pace can start to drop in level after 28 but whether that’s a different calculation or if it’s related to training speeds I’m also unsure if that’s ever been fully divulged.

In additional support of that, look at my others (Masi, Johnston, Galea, Glass, Agostino) and you’ll see that pace has been worked on first. Most of these won’t be NT players mind you but I’d follow the same pattern regardless.

About the training - it's 100% . In Bulgaria we have done a lot of sampling on the training of the individual lines. But we have been testing them for many years and what has been established is 100%. The line of defense - the slowest to train pace and then defense. The same with the midfielders. So while the players are young and picking up the levels faster we train more the skills that pick up slower. With strikers again pace is picked up slowest and then it's goals. That's why we look for similar distributions: if a striker at the end of 21 has 40 points - 15/12/13. If he has 39 - 15/11/13 and so.... idea is to pick up the difficult levels while he is young. Same with the other lines. I'll show you one of my midfielders at 24. Definitely not one of the best we have but the principle of training is followed:
11 1
14 13
13 13
13 6
The idea here is that now by the end of 26 he will only train the skills that are picked up the fastest. Defense and Tempo will only be raided in the offseason + 1 or 2 practices during the season. After 4 seasons the player should be helping the national team. Naturally if we are lucky to escape injuries.

That wasn’t what I was trying to find out. I know pace is slowest to train at any age. Does this assessment in Bulgaria also include data on the same approx talent, for players with similar skills but trained in different skills at different times and who ends up better? Or for same talent but different ages on the same skills?

If say tech goes from 3 weeks to 4 weeks as a result of age alone and pace goes from 4 to 5 weeks, then order doesn’t matter. If tech goes from 3 to 4 weeks and pace goes from 4 to 7 weeks say then yes it will matter the order you do it in.

I’d be surprised if data for this exists.

It was confirmed by new owners (Raul) after taking over that it's best to start with pace training due to the way the training is calculated (the slower the training type, the more it's influenced by age).

So for strikers it should be (ideally) pace - striker - tech
for mids pace - tech/def - pm/pass
for defs pace - def - tech - pm/pass

+1
Exactly. I mean, we've tried it and it really is. Even for the midfielders, after pace, training the defense ranks immediately in difficulty. Technique,passing and playmaker are significantly easier to train and even having to catch up when the player is already bigger is easier.

So let's play a game :)
You can look upon my Ishida, he have talent 3,55. He's close to pop in passing (~5GT) and other skills are after pop. Would You go for a DEF/MID/ATT with him? :) I've got responses from achmid and cometer + some guys from Polish forums, but want to validate it against Your opinion :)