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Asunto: Bragging Topic
Mate you play sokker for over 6 years!!! Of course you are gonna have TOP players..And believe me it's little easier to go to TOP division in Australia than in Poland or even Czech..
I don't understand your point really. You have to buy exceptional juniors for lots of money or be extremely lucky to draft supertalents from your youth school and than you have to train them from 17/18-25/26 until they reach 3x divine. I don't find that easy at all..Considering you have to buy players for other positions, buy coaches, stadium etc..that takes years to get to that level..
I promoted to 2nd division in Czech only after 6 years of playing..
I think the training here in sokker unlike other things is set perfectly..
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I promoted to 2nd division in Czech only after 6 years of playing..
I think the training here in sokker unlike other things is set perfectly..
(editado)
oowie [del] para
LaBamba
Yeah but there's playing and there's "playing". I fall in to the second category where I've enjoyed the game and trained, but I've never really put in a lot of time or effort. That and my first completely trained 3xD came about 7 seasons ago-ish...and as I said, that's without trying.
It's definitely harder to get to A-League in bigger countries but the point was made that it's hard to train 3xD strikers, and I'm showing you it isn't, getting to the A-League has nothing to do with that, as a lot of sponsorship comes from other factors as well as just the league you get, and a majority of your funds are from matches anyway which depends on supporter size and mood, and trust me, if you aren't in A-League Aus, you are losing these as we dont have enough active to have a completely active 2nd div, so I'd argue that you get more money over the season in even Div 4 poland than 2nd div Aus, and div 4 poland isn't that hard
It's definitely harder to get to A-League in bigger countries but the point was made that it's hard to train 3xD strikers, and I'm showing you it isn't, getting to the A-League has nothing to do with that, as a lot of sponsorship comes from other factors as well as just the league you get, and a majority of your funds are from matches anyway which depends on supporter size and mood, and trust me, if you aren't in A-League Aus, you are losing these as we dont have enough active to have a completely active 2nd div, so I'd argue that you get more money over the season in even Div 4 poland than 2nd div Aus, and div 4 poland isn't that hard
What are you talking about? Getting supertalented 18 year old juniors and training them for 8 seasons sounds easy for you? Ok..
Btw. No offense but I think you are little delusional about the level of competition in bigger countries..
I played 65 mark for years and I wasn't able to promote from 3rd division. Because If you want to play for results from the start, you have to spend lots of money on older players and you are loosing a lots of money there and that makes it much more difficult to improve quicker..Czech 5th and 4th divisons are relatively easy but 3rd is pretty good and the 2nd are stacked with great teams.
I'm now in the 2nd division and there is guy who records mark 74 and he is last so far..just so you have comparison..
Again the point was about training and I think it is set and balanced very well here..there are milion other things I would complain about before training..
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Btw. No offense but I think you are little delusional about the level of competition in bigger countries..
I played 65 mark for years and I wasn't able to promote from 3rd division. Because If you want to play for results from the start, you have to spend lots of money on older players and you are loosing a lots of money there and that makes it much more difficult to improve quicker..Czech 5th and 4th divisons are relatively easy but 3rd is pretty good and the 2nd are stacked with great teams.
I'm now in the 2nd division and there is guy who records mark 74 and he is last so far..just so you have comparison..
Again the point was about training and I think it is set and balanced very well here..there are milion other things I would complain about before training..
(editado)
uberfurious [del] para
LaBamba
This game has no short cuts and it takes time to get your money together to get coaches, stadiums etc. If you take the short cut of buying older players it will take you longer. This game is an economics game more than anything. Foreign lower leagues are making the same or more money than Australian A-Leauge. I know becuase I am bidding for divine players against lower league European teams.
Training is the best part of the game, but you should be able to max out the 3 key skills on a player consistantly like oowie. Who would be 3xdivine in the world? Maybe Messi and Ronaldo. RVP is pretty slow, Rooney is a bit slow and not a perfect finisher, Saurez = divine tech and pace and poor finishing etc etc
Any good sport simulation games should involve compromise. I can buy the best players in all positions and still afford my wage bill every week - stupid. I can buy 2 3xdivine strikers and 5 2xdivine defenders and they will play against basically the same players in the other team - stupid. If everyone is perfect, there is no individuality and you suddenly realise the game is just numbers. It becomes more real when players have strengths and weaknesses just like in real life.
It also makes tactics more interesting as you have to decide where to concentrate your money in which skills across the park.
If you want, keep training the same, add 50% more skills such as:
- Heading shooting
- Ground shooting
- Heading defense
- Ground defense
- Passing
- Crossing
Training is the best part of the game, but you should be able to max out the 3 key skills on a player consistantly like oowie. Who would be 3xdivine in the world? Maybe Messi and Ronaldo. RVP is pretty slow, Rooney is a bit slow and not a perfect finisher, Saurez = divine tech and pace and poor finishing etc etc
Any good sport simulation games should involve compromise. I can buy the best players in all positions and still afford my wage bill every week - stupid. I can buy 2 3xdivine strikers and 5 2xdivine defenders and they will play against basically the same players in the other team - stupid. If everyone is perfect, there is no individuality and you suddenly realise the game is just numbers. It becomes more real when players have strengths and weaknesses just like in real life.
It also makes tactics more interesting as you have to decide where to concentrate your money in which skills across the park.
If you want, keep training the same, add 50% more skills such as:
- Heading shooting
- Ground shooting
- Heading defense
- Ground defense
- Passing
- Crossing
You think getting older players is a shortcut, but how else do you want to stay competitive? Yes you can do it faster way like oowie, just train and save 30M in bank account (not to mention not everybody here is great trader on the market), but that would mean you have to play in lower divisions (in my country) for over 6 years.. And what do you buy for 30M? 5 great players and may be, may be then you can get to 1st-2nd division. After 6 years of loosing..Not my cup of tea..I was trying to win from day one..you know despite your thinking that it is mainly economic manager, I'd like to think it is also football manager and the goal here is to win with your club..So it is a slower but definitely more fun way for me..
Believe me, it is far more difficult in bigger countries, pretty much all teams in Czech 1st and 2nd divisions and lots of teams in 3rd are 6-7 years old. That's how long it takes to develope a competitive team. And I am still far away of having divine players on all positions..not even close..
In smaller countries you can just train players, buy cheaper ones on other positions and you are still able to play high division and win and you are not loosing money..
I completely disagree with you about the tactics. I think it's quite the opposite. If you make training harder, it would be much more difficult for new teams to get to the level of the older teams. If you have divine players on both sides, isn't that really the very moment when tactic makes the difference and not the quality of the players..?
My original point was only about training and all I said is that I don't think that training 3x divine strikers is all THAT easy. Only exceptional juniors can reach that level. Of course if you think training for 8 seasons is easy, than we have to agree to disagree..
Ggetting new skills is of course attractive and interesting idea and I like it, but you have to realize that would make the game even more complicated and less appealing for newbies and that would be counter productive at the end..
Believe me, it is far more difficult in bigger countries, pretty much all teams in Czech 1st and 2nd divisions and lots of teams in 3rd are 6-7 years old. That's how long it takes to develope a competitive team. And I am still far away of having divine players on all positions..not even close..
In smaller countries you can just train players, buy cheaper ones on other positions and you are still able to play high division and win and you are not loosing money..
I completely disagree with you about the tactics. I think it's quite the opposite. If you make training harder, it would be much more difficult for new teams to get to the level of the older teams. If you have divine players on both sides, isn't that really the very moment when tactic makes the difference and not the quality of the players..?
My original point was only about training and all I said is that I don't think that training 3x divine strikers is all THAT easy. Only exceptional juniors can reach that level. Of course if you think training for 8 seasons is easy, than we have to agree to disagree..
Ggetting new skills is of course attractive and interesting idea and I like it, but you have to realize that would make the game even more complicated and less appealing for newbies and that would be counter productive at the end..
sx890410 [del] para
LaBamba
didnt know miaso reached 5x SD.....
and i think what you guys are basically trying to say is that you have to sacrifice either results or training up to a certain point, you can't have your cake and eat it too, like LaBamba who goes for older players to be competitive, or conversely like oowie, who goes for talented young striker trainees to train up to 3x divine
and i think what you guys are basically trying to say is that you have to sacrifice either results or training up to a certain point, you can't have your cake and eat it too, like LaBamba who goes for older players to be competitive, or conversely like oowie, who goes for talented young striker trainees to train up to 3x divine
Achmid [del] para
LaBamba
I think you will find that players on your side of the world also have better access to players than we do in Aus, and therefore can pay less than what we have to for the one of two good players that come on the market in a timeframe that we can buy.
I think you have overlooked a lot of things when you are coming here saying how hard other countries have it, and this is coming from someone who has been at the top of Aus and who has been around Sokker for a long time.
I've seen how fast people can develop their teams in big nations and it's ridiculous. You should try taking a team to number one in Aus and just see how difficult it is. There's always the same people up the top, who then stay at the top because their fan moods are always the highest, so supporters stay up, so get more money from grounds etc, but in the same sense, as those coming up to try and take them on haven't had the benefit of winning games against similar level teams, they also hold back the top teams, all of which is not seen in countries with 3 solid active leagues.
It means you end up at a stage where the top teams dont get beaten, but they also cant catch up with other teams around the world.
As for the training goes, it is by far too easy. Thats what makes hattrick boring and although to a less of an extent, is part of what is destroying sokker. If this game had more compromise there would be more managerial decisions and thus make it more exciting.
This compromose can come from not getting perfect skills, to having much higher wages, but either way something needs to be done, and it's why I stopped playing the game.
I think you have overlooked a lot of things when you are coming here saying how hard other countries have it, and this is coming from someone who has been at the top of Aus and who has been around Sokker for a long time.
I've seen how fast people can develop their teams in big nations and it's ridiculous. You should try taking a team to number one in Aus and just see how difficult it is. There's always the same people up the top, who then stay at the top because their fan moods are always the highest, so supporters stay up, so get more money from grounds etc, but in the same sense, as those coming up to try and take them on haven't had the benefit of winning games against similar level teams, they also hold back the top teams, all of which is not seen in countries with 3 solid active leagues.
It means you end up at a stage where the top teams dont get beaten, but they also cant catch up with other teams around the world.
As for the training goes, it is by far too easy. Thats what makes hattrick boring and although to a less of an extent, is part of what is destroying sokker. If this game had more compromise there would be more managerial decisions and thus make it more exciting.
This compromose can come from not getting perfect skills, to having much higher wages, but either way something needs to be done, and it's why I stopped playing the game.
I don't think the training system is actually the problem. I believe the problem comes because there is no disincentive to have an all divine team. Player wages, coaches wages, that's the real killer. These need to be far more expensive and make you think a little more.
Personally, I don't see a big problem with all top end skilled players if the associated negatives are included such as higher expenses. At the same time a corrected transfer market where a players salary was tied in part to their last transfer value will reduce the whoever is richest wins market we're currently in if done correctly.
The bottom line is the issue as far as I'm concerned isn't the training system, it's the money system and that has a number of flaws in the current design.
Try getting a midfielder to 5x divine and it's actually pretty difficult. Strikers are easier to train as they require 3 skills, but for anything else that requires 4 or more it's not that common. The main reason teams have divine players in every position is down to the money system in that everything is way too cheap on the expense side except for transfers (but who cares if income creams over expenses at almost every level).
Anyway it's an interesting discussion but I found other things in there I don't agree with either.
Firstly, I hate those who say X division of country Y is harder than top division of country Z. Put me in any of those leagues mentioned and I guarantee I'll be competitive, I guarantee. In many ways I wish we could combine leagues, I've never ever had 8 competitive teams in the league. Can't imagine how much more sponsorship I'd be earning too. In fact, if you want LaBamba, I'm happy to keep week 15 free for a 1st XI friendly to illustrate my point.
The champions cup is where it's at for me as that gives me those challenges that outside of 1-2 games a season in the league I crave but don't get.
Secondly, I believe it was uber who said along the lines of 4th division european teams getting more sponsorship than top league here, I don't believe that either. It's all based on fans and supporter mood. More fans in your league, more sponsorship. Gate receipts is another matter but again it's along similar lines.
The problem we're having in Australia is that those with the fan numbers are slowly dwindling away towards the bottom leagues or are nowhere near active enough now to take full benefit. (Frogs,Achmids,Tribe,Tong,TBF,PRT/SLTFATF,TG,Roar FC to name a few). That's a huge hole
in experience and all those teams at their highest interest would still be in competing for the A League making the league very competitive and forcing some other solid teams (MM,Chelsea,Minkee,DAU) back down into the lower leagues (please don't take offense, I'm not trying to be disrespectful but the teams above listed would be A League contenders at their highest interest levels based on history).
Our top league to other top leagues would be very similar in those conditions, as it stands we're in a rebuilding phase with several new teams to the A League now cementing their place. I still think vivski and myself at top fan mood would be earning equivalents to most of the teams elsewhere, but I do agree that our lower leagues are suffering compared to other world leagues.
We're also at a disadvantage in terms of time zones, so most of the quality gets sold at times we're unable to be online, unless you're in Western Australia but that has other disadvantages too.
At the end of the day the development of players has rapidly accelerated because the gap between income and expenses has widened with ticket prices mainly. This is where the game is going wrong but there are too many people who hate anything that makes their situation worse even if that's the best for the sustainability of the game.
(editado)
Personally, I don't see a big problem with all top end skilled players if the associated negatives are included such as higher expenses. At the same time a corrected transfer market where a players salary was tied in part to their last transfer value will reduce the whoever is richest wins market we're currently in if done correctly.
The bottom line is the issue as far as I'm concerned isn't the training system, it's the money system and that has a number of flaws in the current design.
Try getting a midfielder to 5x divine and it's actually pretty difficult. Strikers are easier to train as they require 3 skills, but for anything else that requires 4 or more it's not that common. The main reason teams have divine players in every position is down to the money system in that everything is way too cheap on the expense side except for transfers (but who cares if income creams over expenses at almost every level).
Anyway it's an interesting discussion but I found other things in there I don't agree with either.
Firstly, I hate those who say X division of country Y is harder than top division of country Z. Put me in any of those leagues mentioned and I guarantee I'll be competitive, I guarantee. In many ways I wish we could combine leagues, I've never ever had 8 competitive teams in the league. Can't imagine how much more sponsorship I'd be earning too. In fact, if you want LaBamba, I'm happy to keep week 15 free for a 1st XI friendly to illustrate my point.
The champions cup is where it's at for me as that gives me those challenges that outside of 1-2 games a season in the league I crave but don't get.
Secondly, I believe it was uber who said along the lines of 4th division european teams getting more sponsorship than top league here, I don't believe that either. It's all based on fans and supporter mood. More fans in your league, more sponsorship. Gate receipts is another matter but again it's along similar lines.
The problem we're having in Australia is that those with the fan numbers are slowly dwindling away towards the bottom leagues or are nowhere near active enough now to take full benefit. (Frogs,Achmids,Tribe,Tong,TBF,PRT/SLTFATF,TG,Roar FC to name a few). That's a huge hole
in experience and all those teams at their highest interest would still be in competing for the A League making the league very competitive and forcing some other solid teams (MM,Chelsea,Minkee,DAU) back down into the lower leagues (please don't take offense, I'm not trying to be disrespectful but the teams above listed would be A League contenders at their highest interest levels based on history).
Our top league to other top leagues would be very similar in those conditions, as it stands we're in a rebuilding phase with several new teams to the A League now cementing their place. I still think vivski and myself at top fan mood would be earning equivalents to most of the teams elsewhere, but I do agree that our lower leagues are suffering compared to other world leagues.
We're also at a disadvantage in terms of time zones, so most of the quality gets sold at times we're unable to be online, unless you're in Western Australia but that has other disadvantages too.
At the end of the day the development of players has rapidly accelerated because the gap between income and expenses has widened with ticket prices mainly. This is where the game is going wrong but there are too many people who hate anything that makes their situation worse even if that's the best for the sustainability of the game.
(editado)
uberfurious [del] para
LaBamba
LaBamba: What sponsorship do you get in your "lower" league?
Slowing down training doesn't make it less exciting. All players will be equally slowed. You just would have to be more selective in what you train.
Midfielders is the only place where trainers have to make decisions about what skills to sacrifice, but when you see the ridiculously high defending skills on the top Australian NT "wingers" you can see that that even with midfielder training, there is hardly a decision to make. 5xbrilliant is a breeze... 5xmagic not too hard either. I have 4 magic + 1 unearthly coach and team of divines and I still make a profit. As cometer said, without training or economic compomises to be made this game HAS to get boring once you have everything.
I never played WOW, but I'm pretty sure its gets boring once you can't level up anymore. Chasing improvement is where games are fun. I'm sure its is the reason why the Australian league has lost so many top players lately. I've been in the game 4 years and I have a perfect stadium, perfect coaches and a team that can only be moderately improved. I don't have to make any compromise decisions each season where I have to cut a player to balance the budget or change my tactic because I can't afford good strikers. I will never have to rebuild a team because I can always afford to buy new younger devine defenders and strikers and my trainee midfielders grow up to replace my 1st team midfielders. How long will I stay interested?
Of course I do still have winning A-league and the cup to keep me interested, but after doing that, a lot of our top managers have quit.
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Slowing down training doesn't make it less exciting. All players will be equally slowed. You just would have to be more selective in what you train.
Midfielders is the only place where trainers have to make decisions about what skills to sacrifice, but when you see the ridiculously high defending skills on the top Australian NT "wingers" you can see that that even with midfielder training, there is hardly a decision to make. 5xbrilliant is a breeze... 5xmagic not too hard either. I have 4 magic + 1 unearthly coach and team of divines and I still make a profit. As cometer said, without training or economic compomises to be made this game HAS to get boring once you have everything.
I never played WOW, but I'm pretty sure its gets boring once you can't level up anymore. Chasing improvement is where games are fun. I'm sure its is the reason why the Australian league has lost so many top players lately. I've been in the game 4 years and I have a perfect stadium, perfect coaches and a team that can only be moderately improved. I don't have to make any compromise decisions each season where I have to cut a player to balance the budget or change my tactic because I can't afford good strikers. I will never have to rebuild a team because I can always afford to buy new younger devine defenders and strikers and my trainee midfielders grow up to replace my 1st team midfielders. How long will I stay interested?
Of course I do still have winning A-league and the cup to keep me interested, but after doing that, a lot of our top managers have quit.
(editado)
Slowing down training doesn't make it less exciting. All players will be equally slowed. You just would have to be more selective in what you train.
Whilst I understand where you're coming from, simply slowing training in itself isn't the solution in my mind. The $'s are so high that you'd still buy what you needed to have a top team with little effort.
Midfielders is the only place where trainers have to make decisions about what skills to sacrifice, but when you see the ridiculously high defending skills on the top Australian NT "wingers" you can see that that even with midfielder training, there is hardly a decision to make. 5xbrilliant is a breeze... 5xmagic not too hard either.
huge difference between brilliant and divine/superdivine though (as levels aren't linear in performance) but I understand what you mean, though to get high defending they need a high starting defending level. I had to sacrifice off 3x superdivine or 4x divine for Erdogan to get his defense up to his current level and I'm still training him at 30, so its not that easy.
As cometer said, without training or economic compomises to be made this game HAS to get boring once you have everything.
You can have everything and still not get bored if the game is structured appropriately and is flexible for change. Again $'s and the current lack of options in the past few match engines is driving the boringness factor.
Chasing improvement is where games are fun. I'm sure its is the reason why the Australian league has lost so many top players lately.
Partly. Another reason is that as much as we might like to think otherwise, life dictates over online gaming and over years circumstances change quickly resulting in experienced users giving the game away because they no longer have the available resources they once had.
Of course I do still have winning A-league and the cup to keep me interested, but after doing that, a lot of our top managers have quit.
It's all about finding your next objective. If you find that, then really you won't quit simply because you've reached the pinnacle. If reaching the top was it, I'd have left long ago :).
In saying that there will be some that move aside after winning the highest title regardless of what happens.
Whilst I understand where you're coming from, simply slowing training in itself isn't the solution in my mind. The $'s are so high that you'd still buy what you needed to have a top team with little effort.
Midfielders is the only place where trainers have to make decisions about what skills to sacrifice, but when you see the ridiculously high defending skills on the top Australian NT "wingers" you can see that that even with midfielder training, there is hardly a decision to make. 5xbrilliant is a breeze... 5xmagic not too hard either.
huge difference between brilliant and divine/superdivine though (as levels aren't linear in performance) but I understand what you mean, though to get high defending they need a high starting defending level. I had to sacrifice off 3x superdivine or 4x divine for Erdogan to get his defense up to his current level and I'm still training him at 30, so its not that easy.
As cometer said, without training or economic compomises to be made this game HAS to get boring once you have everything.
You can have everything and still not get bored if the game is structured appropriately and is flexible for change. Again $'s and the current lack of options in the past few match engines is driving the boringness factor.
Chasing improvement is where games are fun. I'm sure its is the reason why the Australian league has lost so many top players lately.
Partly. Another reason is that as much as we might like to think otherwise, life dictates over online gaming and over years circumstances change quickly resulting in experienced users giving the game away because they no longer have the available resources they once had.
Of course I do still have winning A-league and the cup to keep me interested, but after doing that, a lot of our top managers have quit.
It's all about finding your next objective. If you find that, then really you won't quit simply because you've reached the pinnacle. If reaching the top was it, I'd have left long ago :).
In saying that there will be some that move aside after winning the highest title regardless of what happens.
Looking at something I'd be quite happy seeing.
Removing the country leagues and replacing it with a world league system in some way such that a user signs up for his country of residence but participates against others.
Extend size of leagues to say 16 teams and play everyone twice (2 games a week, ie Sunday and Thursday as CC would no longer be needed (so season remains similar size).
Keep cups as national cups (i.e Australia Cup as it stands currently in exactly the same format).
Then modify the junior system such that there is some % chance that you'll pull foreign juniors (based on country you signed up to) and the rest as it is now to the country that you have elected to play.
Then whack in a forum for each country to discuss amongst others in the same country (as you might not notice them when you're in a world league), say Sokker Australia, USA, Poland etc
NT's are then still functionable, you still generate your own countrys players, you still feel attached to your own country but you will almost always have a challenge, won't suffer mass exits due to low users and sponsorship would be consistent with the strongest leagues attracting the most and there's no country X's Ith division is better than country Y's top division.
Obviously a huge change structurally and I'm sure there'd be needs of more planning etc but seriously that would make this so much more enjoyable and I wouldn't have to continually think what if I was in that country which has so many users and at the same time don't need to feel stressed that your NT can't perform because you have 1-2 players from that nation as other users will be able to produce those players.
Farfetched idea, but that would surely grab my attention, more competitive fixtures - check, less dependence on your own country's users who might not find the sport appealing - check, ability to still challenge other users in your country - check, NT's not being as heavily disadvantaged - check, title races much closer - check.
Shame it's never going to happen though.
Edit: It then gives sokker something different to all the other management games out there, hattrick, trophy manager etc as it becomes a global contest.
The only trick would be how to structure the leagues so that it doesn't take 20 years to get to the top.
(editado)
Removing the country leagues and replacing it with a world league system in some way such that a user signs up for his country of residence but participates against others.
Extend size of leagues to say 16 teams and play everyone twice (2 games a week, ie Sunday and Thursday as CC would no longer be needed (so season remains similar size).
Keep cups as national cups (i.e Australia Cup as it stands currently in exactly the same format).
Then modify the junior system such that there is some % chance that you'll pull foreign juniors (based on country you signed up to) and the rest as it is now to the country that you have elected to play.
Then whack in a forum for each country to discuss amongst others in the same country (as you might not notice them when you're in a world league), say Sokker Australia, USA, Poland etc
NT's are then still functionable, you still generate your own countrys players, you still feel attached to your own country but you will almost always have a challenge, won't suffer mass exits due to low users and sponsorship would be consistent with the strongest leagues attracting the most and there's no country X's Ith division is better than country Y's top division.
Obviously a huge change structurally and I'm sure there'd be needs of more planning etc but seriously that would make this so much more enjoyable and I wouldn't have to continually think what if I was in that country which has so many users and at the same time don't need to feel stressed that your NT can't perform because you have 1-2 players from that nation as other users will be able to produce those players.
Farfetched idea, but that would surely grab my attention, more competitive fixtures - check, less dependence on your own country's users who might not find the sport appealing - check, ability to still challenge other users in your country - check, NT's not being as heavily disadvantaged - check, title races much closer - check.
Shame it's never going to happen though.
Edit: It then gives sokker something different to all the other management games out there, hattrick, trophy manager etc as it becomes a global contest.
The only trick would be how to structure the leagues so that it doesn't take 20 years to get to the top.
(editado)
This exact structure you mentioned is something I put in to the the ideas topic multiple time 4-5yrs ago. That is how long this has been an issue, but of course the devs didn't want to change it (ok not quite exact, I didn't say about the 16 teams and twice week matches), but everything else is the same, and I still stand by it being the best possible solution.
As far as the latest uber-cometer post, I think the truth/reality is somewhere in between the points, with both stating opposite ends of the spectrum but also believing it to be somewhere in the middle. ie the getting 'perfect' side and the only thing left is to win the aus cup/a-league then manager leaving, vs real life commitments.
Obviously real life commitments will always come first, but if something is percieved as being more interesting than something else, it will take longer before people decide to quit. It's all about the higher value reward based system (something we also use a lot in training animals).
But I'm just stating this as I know both of you both believe it is somewhere in the middle, whilst stating the extreme closer to your opinion
As far as the latest uber-cometer post, I think the truth/reality is somewhere in between the points, with both stating opposite ends of the spectrum but also believing it to be somewhere in the middle. ie the getting 'perfect' side and the only thing left is to win the aus cup/a-league then manager leaving, vs real life commitments.
Obviously real life commitments will always come first, but if something is percieved as being more interesting than something else, it will take longer before people decide to quit. It's all about the higher value reward based system (something we also use a lot in training animals).
But I'm just stating this as I know both of you both believe it is somewhere in the middle, whilst stating the extreme closer to your opinion
I think you guys took it bit personal the comparisons between bigger and smaller countries, but you don't see the whole picture. Of course there are some great managers here, that will be competitive in any 1st/2nd division in the sokker world, but the game is also played for the average users. And it takes 6-7 years for the average user to get to 3rd/2nd division in my country and to record 60-65 marks..and of course there is still looong way to improve to 70 marks..
You guys have some great ideas how to make sokker more fun, but If you make the game more challenging and complicated, than the TOP managers will always find the way how to be better than the others, but for average user, the game imho will just became much more complicated and therefore not that intertaining. I understand that for few guys here the game has become boring because of the lack of competition here, but that is unfortunately the fate of smaller countries. It's different to compete against 4-5 teams on the same lavel than against 100 teams..Overall I think we can agree that for the average user it is incomparably harder to get to TOP division in bigger countries, just because of the competition and number of teams..
My point is that i don't find anything wrong about reaching certain level from which it is harder to improve (which still takes many years) as it makes the tactic aspect that much more important. And I think that is something you guys are ignoring here..
LaBamba: What sponsorship do you get in your "lower" league?
Wo is earning 140k EUR in Czech 4th division.
You guys have some great ideas how to make sokker more fun, but If you make the game more challenging and complicated, than the TOP managers will always find the way how to be better than the others, but for average user, the game imho will just became much more complicated and therefore not that intertaining. I understand that for few guys here the game has become boring because of the lack of competition here, but that is unfortunately the fate of smaller countries. It's different to compete against 4-5 teams on the same lavel than against 100 teams..Overall I think we can agree that for the average user it is incomparably harder to get to TOP division in bigger countries, just because of the competition and number of teams..
My point is that i don't find anything wrong about reaching certain level from which it is harder to improve (which still takes many years) as it makes the tactic aspect that much more important. And I think that is something you guys are ignoring here..
LaBamba: What sponsorship do you get in your "lower" league?
Wo is earning 140k EUR in Czech 4th division.
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LaBamba
And it takes 6-7 years for the average user to get to 3rd/2nd division in my country and to record 60-65 marks..and of course there is still looong way to improve to 70 marks..
Garbage, not in today's environment with all the excess cash. I've been getting 60-65 avg marks for seasons now and I've only just played 7yrs as of a month ago. For about 3 of those years it was impossible to get the stuff you get now as frequently. I believe you could get 60-65 marks in half that time, and I'd love the opportunity to try to do so other than I don't want to sacrifice my 7 years with my current club to do so.
Edit: For the record I did it in 5 years with my club with little effort really. Given the influx of cash and the amount of high quality players flooding the market, you could do it easily inside 3-4 if you were even close to a decent manager without having to resort to daytrading.
You guys have some great ideas how to make sokker more fun, but If you make the game more challenging and complicated, than the TOP managers will always find the way how to be better than the others, but for average user, the game imho will just became much more complicated and therefore not that intertaining.
What's complicated about changing just the league structure and the nationality of juniors. There's no required changes to setting tactics, training, ways of progressing, it's just a different league structure.
I understand that for few guys here the game has become boring because of the lack of competition here, but that is unfortunately the fate of smaller countries.
And that is exactly why things are wrong here, in that the vast opinion is tough luck for those in smaller countries, or tough luck for timezones etc. If it doesn't impact me then who cares. It's completely the wrong attitude. If there's a problem with smaller countries do something about it, don't wipe it under the carpet. Push all countries with less than 200 users together into leagues to make them as entertaining as some of the other bigger leagues or else give them the choice to move to a bigger country. There are ways around the problem but for those who haven't experienced it first hand, they don't care because it doesn't affect them.
Overall I think we can agree that for the average user it is incomparably harder to get to TOP division in bigger countries, just because of the competition and number of teams..
In isolation yes. In practice, probably not as much as you think. By being in a stronger country you earn the extra sponsorship, gate receipts to get the better players quicker. I guarantee you start 2 new teams at the same time, one in Czech and one in Australia and I guarantee the one in Czech becomes the stronger side quicker. You users in bigger countries are simply assuming there is no benefit for being in your situation and so therefore exclaim it's easier in lower user countries. I'd rather be in your position then ours.
Yes it's easier to get to the top division but you won't have as strong a side economically and skill wise as you don't get the same income.
Using Wo as an example 140k EURO in Czech 4th division is about 3x as much as you'd get here in our 3rd division. In fact if I relegated to div 2 Wo would be earning probably about the same. I'm currently earning 331 250 $ but it's been a hard road. Had we not lost significant users we'd be in a much superior position.
Therefore if we started 2 new teams in Australia and Czech, it's likely that within 1 season the Czech side is earning 2 or 3x as much as the Australian side from the get go without including gate receipts.
If it takes you 6-7 years to get to 65 avg marks you're clearly doing something incorrectly.
(editado)
Garbage, not in today's environment with all the excess cash. I've been getting 60-65 avg marks for seasons now and I've only just played 7yrs as of a month ago. For about 3 of those years it was impossible to get the stuff you get now as frequently. I believe you could get 60-65 marks in half that time, and I'd love the opportunity to try to do so other than I don't want to sacrifice my 7 years with my current club to do so.
Edit: For the record I did it in 5 years with my club with little effort really. Given the influx of cash and the amount of high quality players flooding the market, you could do it easily inside 3-4 if you were even close to a decent manager without having to resort to daytrading.
You guys have some great ideas how to make sokker more fun, but If you make the game more challenging and complicated, than the TOP managers will always find the way how to be better than the others, but for average user, the game imho will just became much more complicated and therefore not that intertaining.
What's complicated about changing just the league structure and the nationality of juniors. There's no required changes to setting tactics, training, ways of progressing, it's just a different league structure.
I understand that for few guys here the game has become boring because of the lack of competition here, but that is unfortunately the fate of smaller countries.
And that is exactly why things are wrong here, in that the vast opinion is tough luck for those in smaller countries, or tough luck for timezones etc. If it doesn't impact me then who cares. It's completely the wrong attitude. If there's a problem with smaller countries do something about it, don't wipe it under the carpet. Push all countries with less than 200 users together into leagues to make them as entertaining as some of the other bigger leagues or else give them the choice to move to a bigger country. There are ways around the problem but for those who haven't experienced it first hand, they don't care because it doesn't affect them.
Overall I think we can agree that for the average user it is incomparably harder to get to TOP division in bigger countries, just because of the competition and number of teams..
In isolation yes. In practice, probably not as much as you think. By being in a stronger country you earn the extra sponsorship, gate receipts to get the better players quicker. I guarantee you start 2 new teams at the same time, one in Czech and one in Australia and I guarantee the one in Czech becomes the stronger side quicker. You users in bigger countries are simply assuming there is no benefit for being in your situation and so therefore exclaim it's easier in lower user countries. I'd rather be in your position then ours.
Yes it's easier to get to the top division but you won't have as strong a side economically and skill wise as you don't get the same income.
Using Wo as an example 140k EURO in Czech 4th division is about 3x as much as you'd get here in our 3rd division. In fact if I relegated to div 2 Wo would be earning probably about the same. I'm currently earning 331 250 $ but it's been a hard road. Had we not lost significant users we'd be in a much superior position.
Therefore if we started 2 new teams in Australia and Czech, it's likely that within 1 season the Czech side is earning 2 or 3x as much as the Australian side from the get go without including gate receipts.
If it takes you 6-7 years to get to 65 avg marks you're clearly doing something incorrectly.
(editado)
I've only been in the game 4 years for my 70+ but I'm freakily awesome at this game ;)