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I have said all that I need too on the sokker development forum but the missed the target on this big time.
You have league matches over different days at different parts of the season, making it confusing for new and existing users, unless we are to vote to play 4 senior games, 1 youth match, have an NT match and have an U21 match all in the same week. This is far too much and not only will cause burnout but most people don't have that much time. All the other football manager games are like this, so there will be nothing to separate sokker from the others, therefore competing for the same users.
There is no improvement for small countries as far as not just coming up against bots, such as the combining of small nations like presented.
There is an easy way to cut the season to 14weeks but not 12.
Positives:
The international cup sounds interesting, but that all depends on how it is drawn. If done the wrong way (and this league structure presented gives me no faith) then it will be even worse. If done well, then it could be a good thing. A better idea was brought up for an international league, with promotions and relegations similar to the current system, this is a good idea
Spliting the national cup could be good for bigger nations, but makes no difference here, or for most of the countries.
If they choose to go ahead with any of these ideas, they will lose a lot users, and there is no guarantee that new players will stick around.
(editado)
You have league matches over different days at different parts of the season, making it confusing for new and existing users, unless we are to vote to play 4 senior games, 1 youth match, have an NT match and have an U21 match all in the same week. This is far too much and not only will cause burnout but most people don't have that much time. All the other football manager games are like this, so there will be nothing to separate sokker from the others, therefore competing for the same users.
There is no improvement for small countries as far as not just coming up against bots, such as the combining of small nations like presented.
There is an easy way to cut the season to 14weeks but not 12.
Positives:
The international cup sounds interesting, but that all depends on how it is drawn. If done the wrong way (and this league structure presented gives me no faith) then it will be even worse. If done well, then it could be a good thing. A better idea was brought up for an international league, with promotions and relegations similar to the current system, this is a good idea
Spliting the national cup could be good for bigger nations, but makes no difference here, or for most of the countries.
If they choose to go ahead with any of these ideas, they will lose a lot users, and there is no guarantee that new players will stick around.
(editado)
naphtali [del] para
achmid
I'm full of questions.
When does training occur under each of the proposed systems?
If the seasons are shortened does that mean that players have fewer, or more training opportunities than the current system?
What effect will that change have on Sokker's economy? If players are worse than before then old players will be good for a long time, the transfer market will probably stagnate, and it will be a barrier to new teams. If new players are better then you will have drastically reduced the value of all existing teams... I can't imagine that will be popular.
If you somehow make it so that players get the same amount of improvement from a 12 week season than they used to under the 14 week system, how will you balance the effect of playing time on training? Either players will need to play more minutes (presumably with more risk of being injured unless that is also accounted for), or more players will be able to be trained each week... There are a lot of knock on effects from these sorts of changes. I don't like your chances of getting it done without massive unintended consequences and alienating your existing user base. Maybe you're okay with that, but I suspect the market for these sorts of games is dwindling and losing users will be very detrimental to the business.
When does training occur under each of the proposed systems?
If the seasons are shortened does that mean that players have fewer, or more training opportunities than the current system?
What effect will that change have on Sokker's economy? If players are worse than before then old players will be good for a long time, the transfer market will probably stagnate, and it will be a barrier to new teams. If new players are better then you will have drastically reduced the value of all existing teams... I can't imagine that will be popular.
If you somehow make it so that players get the same amount of improvement from a 12 week season than they used to under the 14 week system, how will you balance the effect of playing time on training? Either players will need to play more minutes (presumably with more risk of being injured unless that is also accounted for), or more players will be able to be trained each week... There are a lot of knock on effects from these sorts of changes. I don't like your chances of getting it done without massive unintended consequences and alienating your existing user base. Maybe you're okay with that, but I suspect the market for these sorts of games is dwindling and losing users will be very detrimental to the business.
achmid para
naphtali [del]
If you somehow make it so that players get the same amount of improvement from a 12 week season than they used to under the 14 week system
Actually if you are speaking about training, you are talking about a 16week system. So under the 12 week system, training speed would need to be increased by 25% to keep things even.
Otherwise, with no change, the difference between a 23yo trying to get in the National Team, and a 31yo trying to get in to the national team (which is pretty realistic in this game), would be 2 seasons worth of training by the time the 23yo hits 31.
Actually if you are speaking about training, you are talking about a 16week system. So under the 12 week system, training speed would need to be increased by 25% to keep things even.
Otherwise, with no change, the difference between a 23yo trying to get in the National Team, and a 31yo trying to get in to the national team (which is pretty realistic in this game), would be 2 seasons worth of training by the time the 23yo hits 31.
Ok perfect.
I have presented your ideas to the DEVs and your contributions are appreciated.
Whatever happened to this? I'm assuming it got thrown out because everything I read, it seems like the devs only have an eye on the big nations. Overnight Raul just said he would present a community idea, but when you look at the details, it doesn't work for small countries because of the big difference between the top team and the average of the league.
The game is very different for us in small countries compared to big countries where most teams in each league are pretty close in rating, where at least half the league talks, and where you don't just have one dominant team, or where there is no chance a bot could find their way in to the top division, and the new DEVs are either forgetting this, or not wanting to see it.
If they continue to ignore the small nations, they will lose a huge number of potential users from around the world, given MOST nations actually have a very small user base.
There are less than 10% nations that even require a 4th league, and most don't even require a 3rd league
I have presented your ideas to the DEVs and your contributions are appreciated.
Whatever happened to this? I'm assuming it got thrown out because everything I read, it seems like the devs only have an eye on the big nations. Overnight Raul just said he would present a community idea, but when you look at the details, it doesn't work for small countries because of the big difference between the top team and the average of the league.
The game is very different for us in small countries compared to big countries where most teams in each league are pretty close in rating, where at least half the league talks, and where you don't just have one dominant team, or where there is no chance a bot could find their way in to the top division, and the new DEVs are either forgetting this, or not wanting to see it.
If they continue to ignore the small nations, they will lose a huge number of potential users from around the world, given MOST nations actually have a very small user base.
There are less than 10% nations that even require a 4th league, and most don't even require a 3rd league
This is my proposal, based off slavista's good work
This structure allows each competition to have it's own day.
It is in order, with Qualifiers being the last match of every season.
It shortens the season 2 weeks which should make the devs happy.
It gives every user in sokker 2 important matches every week.
It lets us have regional comps as per FIFA
It give both strong and week teams more important matches, without adding a 4th competition day
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ADDITIONAL IDEA - REGIONAL COMPETITION - AFC, CAF, CONCACAF, CONMEBOL, UEFA
In week 6, taking the place of the National cup for those who are knocked out/finished, you could even start a regional competition where all knocked out teams go in to a regional cup which can hold 256 teams per cup.
Example Below:
Asian Football Cup - All of Australia, New Zealand, Al-Jazar, Prahet Thai, Ozbekistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Hong Kong, Daehan Mingu, Nippon, India, Singapore, Malaysia, Pilipinas.
Would have all or all but the finalist from the Indonesia National cup.
All but the finalists of China.
All but the semi finalists in Viet Nam.
This would last 8 weeks.
Africa - would fit all countries - they could even fit in the Asian Football Cup.
So on and So on for America and South America.
For Europe, they could have UEFA 1, UEFA 2, UEFA 3 etc (256 teams in each), based on rankings of those who are knocked out.
This means that those who are still in their National Cup, are getting at least 6 games anyway, whereas those who get knocked out early, get another competition to join, so more official matches (which they missed out on because they were weaker teams)
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So really it would be every team is regional for the additional cup, as per FIFA, and the Regional Cups are 256 teams of those who are knocked out from their National cup, from the countries within that regional. There can be more than one cup for each region, and you are put in order based on ranking points, and they would be labelled UEFA 1, UEFA 2 or AFC 1, AFC 2 etc.
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If the DEVs wanted, using UEFA (Europe) as an example, they could even create a more prestigious UEFA, a SILVER UEFA, for those teams knocked out in Week 6 of their European, national cup, and each cup would be 128 teams.
Then an even more prestigious GOLD UEFA 1, 2, 3 for those knocked out of their cup in week 7, 64 teams each one.
PLATINUM etc. etc.
And if they really wanted to make it better, then they could allow a team who has won their cup, to hold off being put in to a UEFA that week, to get in the next even more prestigious one (a checkbox that says to delay one week, but only for winners).
This way everyone in sokker, will get a change to play in a regional comp, and those that get further in their national cup can try to get a more prestigious regional cup.
There is so much flexibility that could happen with this one schedule.
(editado)
This structure allows each competition to have it's own day.
It is in order, with Qualifiers being the last match of every season.
It shortens the season 2 weeks which should make the devs happy.
It gives every user in sokker 2 important matches every week.
It lets us have regional comps as per FIFA
It give both strong and week teams more important matches, without adding a 4th competition day
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADDITIONAL IDEA - REGIONAL COMPETITION - AFC, CAF, CONCACAF, CONMEBOL, UEFA
In week 6, taking the place of the National cup for those who are knocked out/finished, you could even start a regional competition where all knocked out teams go in to a regional cup which can hold 256 teams per cup.
Example Below:
Asian Football Cup - All of Australia, New Zealand, Al-Jazar, Prahet Thai, Ozbekistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Hong Kong, Daehan Mingu, Nippon, India, Singapore, Malaysia, Pilipinas.
Would have all or all but the finalist from the Indonesia National cup.
All but the finalists of China.
All but the semi finalists in Viet Nam.
This would last 8 weeks.
Africa - would fit all countries - they could even fit in the Asian Football Cup.
So on and So on for America and South America.
For Europe, they could have UEFA 1, UEFA 2, UEFA 3 etc (256 teams in each), based on rankings of those who are knocked out.
This means that those who are still in their National Cup, are getting at least 6 games anyway, whereas those who get knocked out early, get another competition to join, so more official matches (which they missed out on because they were weaker teams)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So really it would be every team is regional for the additional cup, as per FIFA, and the Regional Cups are 256 teams of those who are knocked out from their National cup, from the countries within that regional. There can be more than one cup for each region, and you are put in order based on ranking points, and they would be labelled UEFA 1, UEFA 2 or AFC 1, AFC 2 etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the DEVs wanted, using UEFA (Europe) as an example, they could even create a more prestigious UEFA, a SILVER UEFA, for those teams knocked out in Week 6 of their European, national cup, and each cup would be 128 teams.
Then an even more prestigious GOLD UEFA 1, 2, 3 for those knocked out of their cup in week 7, 64 teams each one.
PLATINUM etc. etc.
And if they really wanted to make it better, then they could allow a team who has won their cup, to hold off being put in to a UEFA that week, to get in the next even more prestigious one (a checkbox that says to delay one week, but only for winners).
This way everyone in sokker, will get a change to play in a regional comp, and those that get further in their national cup can try to get a more prestigious regional cup.
There is so much flexibility that could happen with this one schedule.
(editado)
Looks good.
Another factor that would need to be looked at with an uplift in matches is injuries/recovery. More matches logically means more players injured, which means we need bigger squads, or faster recovery times. Potentially additional games brings additional income which allows for larger squads?
Another factor that would need to be looked at with an uplift in matches is injuries/recovery. More matches logically means more players injured, which means we need bigger squads, or faster recovery times. Potentially additional games brings additional income which allows for larger squads?
Ok so DEV diary 5 is out, just not posted in this forum yet.
There are a few things lost in translation, but I have asked and received direct answers which is great, so I will post here.
In short - training will change. You will have 10 slots to train positions (GK/DEF/MID/ATT), but the limits will still apply regarding only being able to have two of those train GK, 6 of them for ATT etc.
Now, you won't be limited to training all those slots in just one skill, but you will be limited in training each position only one skill. ie all MID will need to train pass or tech or play. You won't be able to have a couple train tech, a couple train pass etc. But if you choose to only train 6 MID in passing, you could choose to train the other 4 slots to DEF players, and train them in DEF.
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Evidence:
Question:
If I have 10 slots, can I train 2 GK in keeper, 4 defenders in defender and 4 mids in passing in the one week? Or will all 10 slots receive say passing training only?
ANSWER: option 1: you can train 2 GK in keeper, 4 defenders in defender and 4 mids in passing in the one week
QUESTION: "So let's say i am training midfielders. If I understood well I will be able to train for example 1 of them in PM, 4 of them in passing, 3 of them in technique and 2 of them in defender."
ANSWER: nope.
you need to pick up training for formation - for example passing - all players in your slots will get passing.
But you cen reduce number of Mids to train also some other possitions.
Like - 6 mids + 4 defs.
If you want.
Becouse if you dont want - you can still train your 10 mids as it is now.
QUESTION: If they all receive passing training, will those with the order of MID get the same or more training than those with the order DEF/GK?
ANSWER: As it is, we keep formations preferences (so training defence for ATT formation would be much less effective)
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There is also a statement about you get a little more training for the weak if playing against strong.
It doesn't appear they have decided what constitutes weak or strong yet (rankings, rating, individual player vs other players in the match etc.). As you can see by my question, I was trying to work out whether the whole team needed to be weaker, or whether just individual players needed to be weaker to get the extra training. Answer was basically we aren't sure yet.
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EVIDENCE
QUESTION: As far as the strength goes. If I have two players, say rating 80 and 20 (average of 50), and I play a team with an average of 60, do both the player with rating 80 and 20 get "increased training" or does the 80 player get slightly less, and the 20 player get slightly more?
ANSWER: Didnt decided yet - we need some tests, with whole new system (calendar + training). for sure we will play a lot of accelerated seasons at test server to make sure it all works good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully this clears up some of the lost in translation stuff.
Summary is basically:
When this comes in to play (still a number of seasons away), there will be less need to have managers train a particular field position, and can focus more on training players. HOWEVER, getting trainees from the same position (ie MID/DEF) that need a certain type of training (ie tech because they are low), will still need to occur.
"Weaker" players/teams will get a little more training than stronger ones.
For this reason I have pushed even more for the International League to occur, so that someone like agbell, who is much stronger than everyone else, won't suffer worse training (which although will be slight, will still exist) just because we aren't at his level. In an international league (to be a different comp to the national one), he will be up against others his own level, and in those matches will receive the better training. After all, it isn't fair agbell is slightly dragged back, or that his trainees would get slightly less training than an equivalent skilled team in Poland or Italia.
If anyone wants to read more, or put your 2 cents in, search for the sokker development forum, and have a read. Take everything with a grain of salt (especially where the ideas are in place), but have an input, have a vote in the user polls and you may just have some sway on how things change when it all comes through
There are a few things lost in translation, but I have asked and received direct answers which is great, so I will post here.
In short - training will change. You will have 10 slots to train positions (GK/DEF/MID/ATT), but the limits will still apply regarding only being able to have two of those train GK, 6 of them for ATT etc.
Now, you won't be limited to training all those slots in just one skill, but you will be limited in training each position only one skill. ie all MID will need to train pass or tech or play. You won't be able to have a couple train tech, a couple train pass etc. But if you choose to only train 6 MID in passing, you could choose to train the other 4 slots to DEF players, and train them in DEF.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence:
Question:
If I have 10 slots, can I train 2 GK in keeper, 4 defenders in defender and 4 mids in passing in the one week? Or will all 10 slots receive say passing training only?
ANSWER: option 1: you can train 2 GK in keeper, 4 defenders in defender and 4 mids in passing in the one week
QUESTION: "So let's say i am training midfielders. If I understood well I will be able to train for example 1 of them in PM, 4 of them in passing, 3 of them in technique and 2 of them in defender."
ANSWER: nope.
you need to pick up training for formation - for example passing - all players in your slots will get passing.
But you cen reduce number of Mids to train also some other possitions.
Like - 6 mids + 4 defs.
If you want.
Becouse if you dont want - you can still train your 10 mids as it is now.
QUESTION: If they all receive passing training, will those with the order of MID get the same or more training than those with the order DEF/GK?
ANSWER: As it is, we keep formations preferences (so training defence for ATT formation would be much less effective)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is also a statement about you get a little more training for the weak if playing against strong.
It doesn't appear they have decided what constitutes weak or strong yet (rankings, rating, individual player vs other players in the match etc.). As you can see by my question, I was trying to work out whether the whole team needed to be weaker, or whether just individual players needed to be weaker to get the extra training. Answer was basically we aren't sure yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVIDENCE
QUESTION: As far as the strength goes. If I have two players, say rating 80 and 20 (average of 50), and I play a team with an average of 60, do both the player with rating 80 and 20 get "increased training" or does the 80 player get slightly less, and the 20 player get slightly more?
ANSWER: Didnt decided yet - we need some tests, with whole new system (calendar + training). for sure we will play a lot of accelerated seasons at test server to make sure it all works good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully this clears up some of the lost in translation stuff.
Summary is basically:
When this comes in to play (still a number of seasons away), there will be less need to have managers train a particular field position, and can focus more on training players. HOWEVER, getting trainees from the same position (ie MID/DEF) that need a certain type of training (ie tech because they are low), will still need to occur.
"Weaker" players/teams will get a little more training than stronger ones.
For this reason I have pushed even more for the International League to occur, so that someone like agbell, who is much stronger than everyone else, won't suffer worse training (which although will be slight, will still exist) just because we aren't at his level. In an international league (to be a different comp to the national one), he will be up against others his own level, and in those matches will receive the better training. After all, it isn't fair agbell is slightly dragged back, or that his trainees would get slightly less training than an equivalent skilled team in Poland or Italia.
If anyone wants to read more, or put your 2 cents in, search for the sokker development forum, and have a read. Take everything with a grain of salt (especially where the ideas are in place), but have an input, have a vote in the user polls and you may just have some sway on how things change when it all comes through
Vote
I'm just placing this here.
DEVs have proposed two potential season drafts. To be honest, neither is that good (as although one is based on an idea myself and two others worked on, the DEVs have tried changing it to a far inferior option, which may affect a lot of small nations negatively compared to the initial design by us).
To keep things short and sweet.
If you vote option 1, it means you want to play 2 league matches a week, expand leagues to 12 teams, and play everyone once. It also means you want to have up to 4 sokker matches per week, as opposed to the current max of 2.
If you vote option 2, it means you will only play 1 league match per week, and up to 3 sokker matches at different times in the season. League sizes will stay at 8.
I will be continually trying to make the DEVs see that making this game better for all countries is better for the game, even if it isn't using one of their own ideas.
I'm just placing this here.
DEVs have proposed two potential season drafts. To be honest, neither is that good (as although one is based on an idea myself and two others worked on, the DEVs have tried changing it to a far inferior option, which may affect a lot of small nations negatively compared to the initial design by us).
To keep things short and sweet.
If you vote option 1, it means you want to play 2 league matches a week, expand leagues to 12 teams, and play everyone once. It also means you want to have up to 4 sokker matches per week, as opposed to the current max of 2.
If you vote option 2, it means you will only play 1 league match per week, and up to 3 sokker matches at different times in the season. League sizes will stay at 8.
I will be continually trying to make the DEVs see that making this game better for all countries is better for the game, even if it isn't using one of their own ideas.