Asunto: Fans expectations

Yes. I think match expectations should be fixed to a better way.

The concept of this is a total failure. The mood of fans is like the weather, you lose one/two games they're outraged. You win some, everything is great. This should be more rigid. I was first on the table for most of the time and I was gaining fans (my expectation is podium or top3). I lost two games and now i am 4th. The mood dropped from like 75-80% to below 60% and today i lost fans. The fun thing is that i won the cup on friday. This is out of all logics.

Think we need to be reasonable and break this down. The old method for fan mood (fan club size difference) was probably the best measure available we could have used at the time and its weakness was when a side suddenly and rapidly improved to be able to match or beat you. That lasted a few seasons whilst they caught up in fans and then it balanced back out again. You can’t use ranking as it’s arguably worse due to people tanking friendlies for training etc. You can’t use average marks either because that can be manipulated by players you select. Squad value again can be manipulated. Previous ladder position can fluctuate so much as well.

That’s still here. That’s the recent match expectations. I don’t see too much wrong here except for those edge cases I explained about above. I just don’t know any other measure that would be better.
(editado)

it's like saying the older the team the better the team or the more fans the team has the better the team is - this does not work most of the time. i dont think it is just few edge cases

Sorry for the RL-thing. I know it doesn't make sense. I feel I was replying to RL-stuff and continued along those lines.

Also, I get the idea, the challenge, the 'play for results' and all that, but (as you were also saying) it does not work. If you get the "we want the title" and lose the first game of the season (which is usually against the worst opponent, specifically if you were 1 and 2 the year before) and you do not meet him again until the very last game of the season, the whole season is basically ruined, because fans are leaving, nobody comes to see the matches. Just because you are number 2, 3 points behind 1 other team. You might even win the title in the last round, but the entire year is depressed, depressed, depressed. Total failure.

Look at my team. We were in the final of the cup, we are 2 points behind a team that is not even the one who won last year. And they absolutely hate us. I'd say it's a massive succes and a hell of an imporvement, since we normally occupy the spot as number 4, which the game just ignores. Things are fine here, thanks. Fans just don't see it.

Currently my expectations are placement 3-6 (if I reach position 6 it is better for me than 5) because next season they will want more.
Meaningless.

Sure, it's too much reactive during week/season, loosing fans (and attendance) doesn't make sense in various context. You could loose few games during seasons but finally match the expected goal in the end. Or the opposite.

strange same liga

club 1

"2 fans leave the club Members in the fan club: 2948 Rating of the current season: huge success Rating of the previous season: above expectations Satisfaction with recent matches: 89% Satisfaction with fulfillment of expectations: 85% Mood: 86% - Your fans love their club above all else"


club 2


"2 fans leave the club. 4 joined, and mine looks like this:

Members in the fan club: 2974

Rating of the current season: below expectations

Rating of the previous season: huge success

Satisfaction with recent matches: 43%

Satisfaction with fulfillment of expectations: 65%

Mood: 58% - Your fans are satisfied Weird (edited)"



please explain if this is how it should work

True. And to take Denmark as an example again, the cup final was between the current #8 in the top tier, who is expected to be "top half" and the current #2, who is expected to win it all. And at "Wembley" for the final, there were 29421 spectators in 'cool' weather with 'moderate clouds'. The final.

Actually it does work most of the time. Where it fails is if a side has a rapid rise in improvement due to whatever reason, training or more likely coming into money.

The longer you have been playing is a pretty good indicator of how strong you should be. If I’ve played 3 years to someone who has just started I should be better. You’ve had more time to develop a squad, earn more revenue, expand training staff and facilities so yes I’d expect you to have an advantage.

Fan club size originally was capped at the top anyway by what other clubs had so those with less fans grew much quicker and caught up quickly. Under the current expectations that’s just thrown a massive curve ball into here as fan size tends to decrease for everyone now and those that do gain, gain less because the top teams are losing fans in droves.

Fan club size difference set a reasonable estimate as to what a result should come out looking like.Yes it’s not perfect, but it was one of the better measures of strength difference we have that wasn’t fully manipulatable on a game by game basis.

In situations where a team has come into an improved squad quickly before fan club size has had time to adjust, they’ll rapidly gain fans within a few seasons and it will balance out again. That’s a good thing as the more fans your league has the more fans everyone else in your league can get and in turn that gives more revenue to your league both in sponsors and ga the receipts. The league benefits greatly but yes the individual club loses temporarily (you probably only play these teams once or twice a season anyway) so it’s actually a good thing longer term.

Your issue is you were still stronger than the team you lost on any metric you choose so you were always going to lose supporter mood regardless as it was a cup match for a start.

If fan club size was such an issue for you in terms of being a bad measuring stick what would you use that is better and isn’t fully manipulatable on a game by game basis?

For me anything that is manipulatable however one wants is instantly worse than the current system.
(editado)

sure, the longer you played the better stadium. But this is just assuming the person managing the team is doing the right things. One can play for 10 years and end up with crappy situation and one can play for 1-2 years and have a great situation so I feel generalization here is not best approach. I think the key word is "should"
Rather than time (size of fan base) I would use different metrics. I think now money and recent results are some that are used. The fanbase cant change very rapidly - it takes time to grow it or for it to decrease it (i think I never had more than 25-30 new members join in a week). Maybe adjusting this would make things better?
In my league I have Blue Balls team which was very weak and managed to build his players quite fast and is good at tactic.
We are half season in and I was expected for a super easy win with popcorn but that was not the case so after a cup loss I was largely affected. I dont think the difference in our teams is as large as the difference in fan bases so these got out of sync. In fact his team is way stronger than mine. I am not sure why you say my team was stronger.

I am also not even mentioning here trying to train players and just focusing on grandpas - this is a challenge as well.

Your team outrated theirs in the cup and you had more shots. That doesn’t sound like they’re better than you necessarily.

Moneys a terrible measure too. Before a big match just spend it all and you’ll have a lower expectation. Yep that seems a great measure.

Recent results are based on fan club sizes still however you want to slice and dice it. If I win 4-0 it’s different to winning 2-1. How do you decide how much difference? Oh yeah that’s done by fan club size difference.

You can’t even suggest a better measure than what we currently have.

Fan club sizes do change quickly in terms of sokker time. 20-30 fans per week is 300 ish per season. Those losing at the top are lucky if they’re getting 1-2 fans per week. On that basis within 2-3 seasons fans will be close enough that expectations have rebalanced.

Meanwhile you have a small pain for maybe 1-2 weeks before you get your mood back. No big deal.

You’re basically already describing the current system yet you’re unhappy about it. Poor management over time shouldn’t be rewarded anyway. You manage poorly well that’s your issue. Money is way too over valued in the current expectations now. They’ve totally screwed the balance. The adjustment may seem reasonable but then they left fan club size calculation untouched and because the fan club system was balanced around teams having madly in love fans from winning games now that this is impossible for most scenarios (especially those expected to win their top league title) all top clubs with the most fans are losing significant fans which in turn makes the league weaker financially. Unfortunately the approach they take here is looking for a small piece and then completely ignoring the other dependencies on it.

I dont really think ratings are that accurate - been discussing it with few folks. Some ratings are weird.

It is not about quantity but quality - he has magical strikers and I do not :)

"You can’t even suggest a better measure than what we currently have." I am sorry to say it but if everyone thought like this our civilization would be in stone age eating popcorn and computers or sokker would not even exist. Anything can be made better.

"You manage poorly well that’s your issue. " - I am not sure you have enough data points/context to make this statement and I am not asking about quality of my management. I did not say anything about quality of your management.

"You can’t even suggest a better measure than what we currently have."

Sure you can, and I've suggested this in the distant past - present league/standings. Using this standard, The match between Tad and Blue in that Cup match should have been even by fan base standards. They are both in ML/my league, look for yourself. Blue is in 6th place. Tad's team is in 8th.

The fan base standard is idiotic because it doesn't factor present team performance at all. It's purely coincidental when it works out. However, I don't think it's the highest priority for a dev team that is slow to work on anything (because it is unpaid labor).

So firstly I didn’t say you managed poorly. Please re-read as it has nothing to do with your management. I made no mention of your management ability. I actually said in response to you about your own point about how some people manage better despite having less time played and so therefore the other person is somehow disadvantaged by having more fans but a weaker side overall. To this argument is where I made my point well in that case it’s the poor managements issue as it’s self inflicted.