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Asunto: Fans expectations
they messed up a lot of thing ,but i think they have some succes too.
the new tranin system, is one imo.!
the new tranin system, is one imo.!
I’m not sure about that. By being able to train anyone it has resulted in fewer available players on the TL because everyone can now hold onto talents. It has therefore driven prices of juniors up to astronomical levels.
On top of this half the “helpful” guidances such as training percentages, coach percentages are all misleading or meaningless.
The plus side is if you can pull good juniors the system allows you to train them.
Another is if you can get a full complement of 10 you can effectively train up a full team.
On top of this half the “helpful” guidances such as training percentages, coach percentages are all misleading or meaningless.
The plus side is if you can pull good juniors the system allows you to train them.
Another is if you can get a full complement of 10 you can effectively train up a full team.
Expectations for season: championship
League position: 2nd
Satisfaction with expectations fulfilment: 15/100
Average individual marks:
65.5 fasolka
62.4 KS ALFA
58.6 Mount blanc
57.9 Bulikov United
51.6 Korona Mściów
51.1 Easy Excel
50.3 Gander United
49.9 The Evil`s
49.2 Victoria FC
48.6 Karsznicka
42.3 FC Glinianka 2006
38.7 Magic Cyc Gdów
That's what I was talking about yesterday... good idea, but messed up during the creating process in order to influence other things they wanted to influence...
League position: 2nd
Satisfaction with expectations fulfilment: 15/100
Average individual marks:
65.5 fasolka
62.4 KS ALFA
58.6 Mount blanc
57.9 Bulikov United
51.6 Korona Mściów
51.1 Easy Excel
50.3 Gander United
49.9 The Evil`s
49.2 Victoria FC
48.6 Karsznicka
42.3 FC Glinianka 2006
38.7 Magic Cyc Gdów
That's what I was talking about yesterday... good idea, but messed up during the creating process in order to influence other things they wanted to influence...
C'mon Borkos, what's the matter here? Bad mood, so what?
It does not effect the training and progress of your youth stars. So, it won't your joy of playing sokker.
And financially, it certainly won't ruin you.
It does not effect the training and progress of your youth stars. So, it won't your joy of playing sokker.
And financially, it certainly won't ruin you.
He's right though. The last 4 seasons I've finished 4th, 6th, 7th and 5th in the league. I'm not a title contender. Yet my fans expect us to be champions each and every season. As a result, my fans have been constantly in a bad mood for 4 seasons now.
It certainly doesn't contribute to my joy of playing.
It certainly doesn't contribute to my joy of playing.
Well the problem in my case is that it's pointless to try to play at decent level. It either makes sense to play for max possible (which I don't want to do at the moment) or to play at very low level and not invest almost anything into my team.
Before the changes I was between low 3rd and high 4th league level, I had some plans to invest a bit into the team and go to 3rd, but it was impossible to do that while also training 16-18yo players. Still I was trying to stay at high 4th level, just without going up because I was losing too many points due to using youths. Anyway it was at least a bit fun and financially it was stable - I had to invest in order to keep the level, but I was getting some money back from sponsors/tickets.
Unfortunately when they changed the fan mood system it completely screwed me over because now due to a big money account they will ALWAYS expect of me to win the league and since I can't do that (youth training) they will ALWAYS be angry, thus terrible ticket money and terrible sponsors money even if I win many games in a row - in fact my MAX mood has become 30/100 and that's when I have a run of many wins in a row and I couldn't go above.
So I would have to invest into my team in order to win games which wouldn't really matter since I wouldn't be getting anything back from the investments.
I did the math and long-term simulations and the conclusion was that... I have to play less competitively because that will be better for my team, which is in fact ridiculous. But if I stop investing and just buy old players for 5-20k euro then I will make back the lost money by not investing it into the players.
At the same time the perfect way is to go down from 4th and then win 5th league which will give me happy supporters (fulfilled expectations) so good money when I go up to 4th league... but in 4th league I will always fail the expectations and get 0/100 for the season, so after going up the only logical decision will be to not invest anything and go down to 5th again.
In other words their reform to create bigger competitiveness and make people play for results forced me to stop playing for results and lower my team standards by a lot. Because financially it will be ~the same long term, while it will be much easier to train young players. So exactly the opposite of what the wanted.
Before the changes I was between low 3rd and high 4th league level, I had some plans to invest a bit into the team and go to 3rd, but it was impossible to do that while also training 16-18yo players. Still I was trying to stay at high 4th level, just without going up because I was losing too many points due to using youths. Anyway it was at least a bit fun and financially it was stable - I had to invest in order to keep the level, but I was getting some money back from sponsors/tickets.
Unfortunately when they changed the fan mood system it completely screwed me over because now due to a big money account they will ALWAYS expect of me to win the league and since I can't do that (youth training) they will ALWAYS be angry, thus terrible ticket money and terrible sponsors money even if I win many games in a row - in fact my MAX mood has become 30/100 and that's when I have a run of many wins in a row and I couldn't go above.
So I would have to invest into my team in order to win games which wouldn't really matter since I wouldn't be getting anything back from the investments.
I did the math and long-term simulations and the conclusion was that... I have to play less competitively because that will be better for my team, which is in fact ridiculous. But if I stop investing and just buy old players for 5-20k euro then I will make back the lost money by not investing it into the players.
At the same time the perfect way is to go down from 4th and then win 5th league which will give me happy supporters (fulfilled expectations) so good money when I go up to 4th league... but in 4th league I will always fail the expectations and get 0/100 for the season, so after going up the only logical decision will be to not invest anything and go down to 5th again.
In other words their reform to create bigger competitiveness and make people play for results forced me to stop playing for results and lower my team standards by a lot. Because financially it will be ~the same long term, while it will be much easier to train young players. So exactly the opposite of what the wanted.
Easy solution for that?
Bigger flexibility with the seasons expectations fulfilment. Now if my expectations is Championship and I get 2nd I get 15/100. If I get 3rd I get 0/100. If I get 12th I also get 0/100 - so there's literally no difference between finishing 3rd and 12th in terms of how mu supporters rate my season and that obviously impacts the finances a lot.
Unfortunately this system doesn't really make sense (IMO) because it heavily promotes less ambitious teams that just drift season afters seasons without training, investing, gathering money to achieve something in the long run.
It's better to have a strong team made of 30+ cheap players that you spend all your ticket and sponsors money on (because you don't get any other money). Fortunately for those teams - now due to the fact that they have no money on account, they get lower seasons expectations, so in turn even more sponsors/tickets money that they can spend on drifting at same level.
Such an amazing idea to concentrate on hurting the more ambitious long-term thinking teams and trying to force them to play the way owners want them to play.
Oh, right, one of the owners does the same thing and just trains youths and gathers money, whoops.
Bigger flexibility with the seasons expectations fulfilment. Now if my expectations is Championship and I get 2nd I get 15/100. If I get 3rd I get 0/100. If I get 12th I also get 0/100 - so there's literally no difference between finishing 3rd and 12th in terms of how mu supporters rate my season and that obviously impacts the finances a lot.
Unfortunately this system doesn't really make sense (IMO) because it heavily promotes less ambitious teams that just drift season afters seasons without training, investing, gathering money to achieve something in the long run.
It's better to have a strong team made of 30+ cheap players that you spend all your ticket and sponsors money on (because you don't get any other money). Fortunately for those teams - now due to the fact that they have no money on account, they get lower seasons expectations, so in turn even more sponsors/tickets money that they can spend on drifting at same level.
Such an amazing idea to concentrate on hurting the more ambitious long-term thinking teams and trying to force them to play the way owners want them to play.
Oh, right, one of the owners does the same thing and just trains youths and gathers money, whoops.
At the same time the perfect way is to go down from 4th and then win 5th league which will give me happy supporters (fulfilled expectations) so good money when I go up to 4th league... but in 4th league I will always fail the expectations and get 0/100 for the season, so after going up the only logical decision will be to not invest anything and go down to 5th again.
I'm in the same boat and the optimal way imo is to finish 2nd in the lower league and forfeit the playoff. This way you can expect 40-50% average mood I think especially if you are first for most of the season
And yes it's ridiculous that I'm forced to deliberately lose games to NOT win the league. Totally counterintuitive and anti-competitive.
I'm in the same boat and the optimal way imo is to finish 2nd in the lower league and forfeit the playoff. This way you can expect 40-50% average mood I think especially if you are first for most of the season
And yes it's ridiculous that I'm forced to deliberately lose games to NOT win the league. Totally counterintuitive and anti-competitive.
BTW, I have Rating of the current season: above expectations with Championship expectation.
I'm not complaining but shouldn't “Goal achieved“ be the maximum in case of “Championship“ expectations?
I'm not complaining but shouldn't “Goal achieved“ be the maximum in case of “Championship“ expectations?
Question is, why are you 'forced' to train so many 17/18 yo youths?
Is it, because you assume it to be financially most attractive? Then you need to do the long-term calculation again and take low mood, less sponsor money and low ticketing into account.
Is it because of fun training youths, then why care about the financials? just accept that your bank account drops from 200 m to 180 in 5 seasons. Why not promote, get beaten up and relegate again and just let it happen?
I read from your explanation, that you want a system where you can train 17/18 y youths, play competitive in a league level, have happy fans and make even more money (for what purpose?).
Everybody wants that, so it won't happen in a competitive environment for everybody. Compromises need to be accepted.
Why are the competitors in the same league not doing it?
Is it, because you assume it to be financially most attractive? Then you need to do the long-term calculation again and take low mood, less sponsor money and low ticketing into account.
Is it because of fun training youths, then why care about the financials? just accept that your bank account drops from 200 m to 180 in 5 seasons. Why not promote, get beaten up and relegate again and just let it happen?
I read from your explanation, that you want a system where you can train 17/18 y youths, play competitive in a league level, have happy fans and make even more money (for what purpose?).
Everybody wants that, so it won't happen in a competitive environment for everybody. Compromises need to be accepted.
Why are the competitors in the same league not doing it?
According to Borkos, the result is being even less competitive (back to lower league instead of stayin...). In the end, quite the opposite of devs's goal.
The economic system is stupid at its base, farming and/or trading is still more valuable than being competitive. The "fan expectation" (and "season bonus") solved nothing in term of competitiveness, you still burn your capital gain for being competitive.
Not only “fan expectation” solve nothing in term of challenging in global, but it’s even worse, its introduce more pressure between competitive teams.
(editado)
The economic system is stupid at its base, farming and/or trading is still more valuable than being competitive. The "fan expectation" (and "season bonus") solved nothing in term of competitiveness, you still burn your capital gain for being competitive.
Not only “fan expectation” solve nothing in term of challenging in global, but it’s even worse, its introduce more pressure between competitive teams.
(editado)
Question is, why are you 'forced' to train so many 17/18 yo youths?
Im not, it's just one of the few things that are still fun for me, in general the training system is really good here.
I like looking for new talents, buying cheap players and hoping to make great players out of them.
Is it because of fun training youths, then why care about the financials? just accept that your bank account drops from 200 m to 180 in 5 seasons. Why not promote, get beaten up and relegate again and just let it happen?
well that's the point, I have no problems with the fact that while training, I don't make as much money [from tickets etc.] as I would in top leagues. That's normal, I don't invest a lot into first team, I don't get a lot back. I invest a lot into training, I get a lot back from it. Totally good.
I read from your explanation, that you want a system where you can train 17/18 y youths, play competitive in a league level, have happy fans and make even more money (for what purpose?).
Everybody wants that, so it won't happen in a competitive environment for everybody. Compromises need to be accepted.
well here is the issue, owners expect from everyone to play in competitive way and stop gathering money so they try to force them via expectations etc.
yet the way they do it is so wrong that in many cases it's better to STOP being competitive and just play at lower level, without 1st team investments because... it will be easier, less time consuming and better financially (no investments, better training etc.)
Im not, it's just one of the few things that are still fun for me, in general the training system is really good here.
I like looking for new talents, buying cheap players and hoping to make great players out of them.
Is it because of fun training youths, then why care about the financials? just accept that your bank account drops from 200 m to 180 in 5 seasons. Why not promote, get beaten up and relegate again and just let it happen?
well that's the point, I have no problems with the fact that while training, I don't make as much money [from tickets etc.] as I would in top leagues. That's normal, I don't invest a lot into first team, I don't get a lot back. I invest a lot into training, I get a lot back from it. Totally good.
I read from your explanation, that you want a system where you can train 17/18 y youths, play competitive in a league level, have happy fans and make even more money (for what purpose?).
Everybody wants that, so it won't happen in a competitive environment for everybody. Compromises need to be accepted.
well here is the issue, owners expect from everyone to play in competitive way and stop gathering money so they try to force them via expectations etc.
yet the way they do it is so wrong that in many cases it's better to STOP being competitive and just play at lower level, without 1st team investments because... it will be easier, less time consuming and better financially (no investments, better training etc.)
Nobody forces you or anybody else to play compentitive or to play the game anyways.
It is the other way round, the devs for sure don't neet to create an invironment to motivate old users with tons of millions to spend that money and compete. Just play how you'd like to play.
Your choice: (a) Play competitive and burn money, or (b) go down and burn less (or even maintain) but loose games/supportes/sponsors money and obviously some important fun elements.
You had the same choices before they changed expectations. But before, you even got more money staying in low level league and train youngers.
It is the other way round, the devs for sure don't neet to create an invironment to motivate old users with tons of millions to spend that money and compete. Just play how you'd like to play.
Your choice: (a) Play competitive and burn money, or (b) go down and burn less (or even maintain) but loose games/supportes/sponsors money and obviously some important fun elements.
You had the same choices before they changed expectations. But before, you even got more money staying in low level league and train youngers.
But now, u spend even more to keep competitive, and farming stay valuable. What a nice trade.
The only way to change this is to make training not easily predictable (so, value / capital gain). To change this, devs needs to change the linear player progression system (and regression). It will never happens.
(editado)
The only way to change this is to make training not easily predictable (so, value / capital gain). To change this, devs needs to change the linear player progression system (and regression). It will never happens.
(editado)
It's not about having the expectation system or not. It's the fact that the expectation system is not fair, not working, not setting the 'correct' expectations, not intelligent enough to see that things are actually going as expected. You are being punished even while having succes. And as such, the only thing achieved here is to give users at worse experience. That's not progress.
I fully agree that the specific situation in the Danish league with the problems that you have described needs smaller adjustments.
But in a broader sense, the system itself is ok to balance between league levels and new/old managers, and make farming at least a bit less attractive.
But in a broader sense, the system itself is ok to balance between league levels and new/old managers, and make farming at least a bit less attractive.