Asunto: »»Youth reform: Changes in youth academies / junior traini

+1

why not transfering the whole training system + games to the youth academy?

- youth entering YS are generated with visible skills.
- 10 youths are trained acc. to minutes played, you define training skills the same way you do for seniors.
- more training fun every week
- estimation of talent takes still about 3-4 weeks.
- 20 yo divine juniors are not worthless anymore. you can train them very selectively in the skills
- spending a training spot to 16/17yo seniors is not worth it.
- you define, when you pull them to senior.

other advantages:
- parts of the code could be copied
- easy to learn and understand as it is the same mechanism as for senior training
- still challenging: when to pull them to seniors and free a tainings slot in YS?
- more focus on senior training in senior squad
- all youths enter with 16 or 17y and individual birth week and stay up to 32 weeks

And...you can still sell U21 players, which would make that part still interesting, cause then you could sell, youth players being U21 players...

There is an important detail missing in this discussion about talents
[...]


Thanks MIkoos, brilliant explanation. I always noticed that the player talent always improved from young squad to main squad. I though that it was due to the YS trainer global level, max magical (the skill that the YS training consider for its effectiveness), while in main squad training, the effectiveness is due to the main coach level related to the single skills.
I mean, in my team the YS training is improved by the global YS coach (magical), while in the main squad the training is ruled by the unheartly skills of the main coach. 15 vs 16.
This could explain the talent difference with talented player, not with medium and low talented players. Your theory, can!
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- talents in youth school are not that often under 4.0, I would say the average is in 5.0-6.0 range, and sometimes they look extremely bad like 15 or worse, not possible to be explained just by coach errors, so really bad YS talents must be possible

Judging from my xp (and Sktables.org dB) it's impossible to get a true picture of talent distribution since its nearly impossible to confirm a talent using math tools (only 100% of correlation coefficient can confirm, its usually never happen due to lack of data weeks). Imo, It's just a random dice between 3 to 6 and the median point should be 4.5 only because Sokker is globally "basic" in computing and all factors in junior draws are purely random.

The difference you can see between YS talent and senior talent may simply be due to the erratic evaluation in YS, whereas in senior you accumulate much more progression data without false data (YS trainer). Another difference is that training is clearly not the same in YS: all skills progress proportionally to the speed of the talent, which is not the case in senior where several types of training have several effects.
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All the skills in youth school proportionally? Yeah right... It has been placed within the rules by a noob. Proportionally...that means that each skill gets around the same progression. That must explain why my unearthly player had excellent def, PM and striker, but only hopeless pace and unsatisfactory technique. You can believe alot, but those rules are far from accurate!

It feels as if in the weekly youth pop draw, pace had much less chance of appearing than the others

Imo, the higher the general youth skill, the better the chance to have a decent distribution for a certain position should be.
So either, being a def, a mid or a striker, but with higher general youth appraisal, the skills should be distributed closer to being better overall for one certain type of position.
what's the point in being talented if his skills are far from being decent. Maybe it never will be adjusted in a way players are growing to be talented in the general meaning of the word, in stead of only having talent in growing skills. But imo, youth as it is now, is too random to be proven worthy to have. You have to be triple lucky to have a good youth player.
1) Decent starting skill + age on the good side of the season (begin)
2 Decent talent in general
3) Decent skill distribution

You can say it has to be like it is now, to avoid having multiple Messi's but imo, I rather have decent skill distributions all the time, but having decent talent should be more rare.
What's the point in having an average 18y old newcomer in the youth squad?
What's the point n having a top talented player with a tragical skill distribution like my unearthly youth player?
Imo, Each youth player should already have at least one outspoken skill in which he should have an affinity to be trained in towards his max potential.
But each position has it's needs and requirements, so having a player with 1 outspoken skill for each position, but nothing complementary, that's just rubbish! It doesn't make sence that an excellent striker has zero technique and pace. It doesn't make sence that an excellent playmaker has zero passing.
These things needs to be reworked before they touch anything else on the youth.
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Pace skills are as hermetic/random as others skills in the end. At best, maybe pace could progresses slowly than others in YS too.

That must explain why my unearthly player had excellent def, PM and striker, but only hopeless pace and unsatisfactory technique.

If you start with lower and higher skills it will ending with lower and higher skills. It's the principle of proportionality ^^ The only limit we can be sure : progression stop at 10 : in that case proportionality is broken.

If distribution of training was random (and not proportionally) it would ending to the same result : heractic skills distrib. So.
If that's your only argument for disqualifying rules "written by a noob" it's very thin.
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I don't think it's about progression, 80% of my youth players enter with a very low pace (especially at high levels)
Week after week I see my league mates complaining about the same problem.
We call it "the turtle problem" :P

Fabián Olarán, edad: 18, altura: 178 cm
valor: 73 750 u$s, salario: 975 u$s
club: Batacazo FC, país: Argentina
forma [12] destacado, disciplina táctica [2] deficiente

condición [2] deficiente, portería [0] trágico
rapidez [0] trágico, defensa [8] sólido
técnica [1] terrible, creación [8] sólido
pases [7] bueno, anotación [2] deficiente

How much progression do you need to jump to 1? xd

it's is not globally true : just take a look at transfer list at age 18 or less, you will see that pace are usually not always the lower skill.
(and I suppose that youngers with higher pace tend not to be in transfer :-D)
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Perhaps it is because most are fired before entering TL